Philosophy of bokeh? Looking for good reading suggestions and good discussion here

[erisian pope]

I've never taken a photography class. I've never studied art. I sort of accidentally discovered my love of photography and everything I know how to do comes from experimentation, the discussions here (including critical feedback in the galleries here) and from a couple books I've picked up on composition and technique.

The topic I find I have the least familiarity with, and this is probably true for many of us as it's a fairly difficult topic to discuss as it lacks exactness, is artistry. Five people might shoot the same general scene and they'll come out with five unique pictures. There are subtleties to how they configure and weild their camera (f-stop, shutter speed, and ISO; white balance and possible use of filters; focal point; composition; etc) which will add to the variation in their pictures. Some of those pictures may end up cliche and others may be merely uninteresting and possibly some will be striking and moving and contain an ineffable something that makes us think 'art!'

The best way I know how to pursue that ineffable quality is by experimentation and lots and lots of shooting as well as really deeply studying those pictures that were taken by others which move me the most deeply. And I do these things. I also read (as I mentioned above). One topic which still eludes me is bokeh. I know I'm not alone in this.

Most of the time when I am shooting I select f-stop and shutter speed due to practical considerations (do I have a tripod or do I need a fast enough speed to hand-hold? is the background distracting and therefore I need to blur it? am I stopping action and therefore need a super-fast shutter?). I do sometimes attempt to blur my background to communicate some specific mood, or sometimes I try to keep the background in focus because I want the parallelism and contrast between subject and background.

My question, however, is what do people here do with regards to bokeh? Is this something you cultivate on purpose? Do you prefer a specific lens for it's shaping of out-of-focus light points? Do you study the out-of-focus parts of your composition before pressing the shutter to see if the blurred shapes accentuate the picture? Do you ever try to compose the out-of-focus area?

Lastly, do any of you know of any literature or websites that go beyond the 'western' mechanical look at bokeh? I understand the general ideas (shape of the light point when it's out of focus, donut shapes, bright edges to the blurred light shapes, etc) as far as that go, but have never seen anyone discuss the spirit of or the artistry of use of bokeh in photography. But I believe we wouldn't have that term unless it's an important and moving topic. I think I understand that Japanese photographers consider bokeh a lot - at least from what I have read.

Anyway, I welcome any and all discussion of these ideas here! I bet some of you have some interesting thoughts to share!




Thanks for reading and hopefully responding!



Don't misunderstand me. I am not suggesting that bokeh is synonymous with or necessary for atristry. I see it, as everything else, as a tool that can be used or not depending on it's applicability to the particular shot.

[venchka]

A great place to see myriad examples from a myriad number of various lenses is the Rangefinder Forum. The folks over there get all hung up on bokeh. Someone has even dubbed one lens the "King of Bokeh." Take that with a grain of silver halide. Anyway, sign up for membership and search the forum. You could spend days just reading about and looking at examples from 35mm lenses.

Here's a good place to start:

Ultimate bokeh thread

Another search topic is "wide open" or something like that.

The Large Format Photography Forum also has great examples. Again, "wide open" will get you started.

Wide Open

Jim Galli loves to experiment with old lenses wide open. His web pages are a gold mine of inspiration.

Jim Galli

One thing you will notice is that there are lenses that produce good bokeh and there are lenses that produce bad bokeh. There are even situations that make even a good bokeh lens produce terrible results. Every lens and every situation is different. It takes a lot of practice to know what each lens will do in different situations.

Enjoy!

[erisian pope]

Thanks for the links! I have actually read a lot about how a lens renders bokeh. I am now interested in how a photographer stages their total compensation to use the out-of-focus portions to accentuate the subject, etc. I want to know what decisions people here make. I want to know what the 'masters' think and do...

[venchka]

OK, well I guess that leaves me out of the discussion. Master I'm not. I just do it. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it don't.

You points your lens and takes your chances.

[HutchPhoto]

Just wanting to listen in here.

Thanks for the postings.



Regards


.

[venchka]

Another good link.

RFF-Wide Open

[Canon bek]

I am following this. Good discussion.

[erisian pope]

Wayne - left out of the discussion? I hope not! I've been browsing each of the links you posted and am enjoying them all. So do you ever "compose" the negative space or the out-of-focus areas in your pictures? If so, what criteria do you use? How do you do it?

[barP]

also not a master by any stretch, but i do love me some bokeh. i especially like it with that thai chili oil and some lime juice.....oh....wait, that's something else. anyhow, i can't necessaryily articulate my decision making process, but the answer i would give to all your questions is yes, i think about it, i manipulate it, it's one of the foremost considerations i use in picking shutter, aperture, and iso.

wp.

[venchka]

Let the fun begin!

Official TPF Bokeh Festival

[toverman]

I think we can create stronger images by considering the negative space backgrounds create, but if the subject is moving (like an active 1-year-old boy) it's just nice to get something in focus.

For nice bokeh I like my 85 f/1.8 very much and love the effects of the standby 70-200 f/2.8. Very creamy and it blends the background shapes and colors (depending on what they are) into a very nice effect.

[mdparthum]

I really like the way a portrait looks with an out of focus background. I shot this image Sunday and love the outcome. I think about it all the time and want to be able to control it more and more. And I just think it looks cool.

[venchka]

The Leica User's Gallery April contest theme fit right in with this topic.

April 2008
This month's theme was "Shallow depth of field"

http://contest.leica-users.org/main.php/v/0804/

Some of these were taken with DSLRs even!

Enjoy.

[johnastovall]

I want to get into this but needs drive. You are all aware there are actually two kinds of bo-ke to be considered in an image. And Erwin Puts thinks it's a bucket of tripe.

[venchka]

Grinning. Erwin Puts. Don't get me started. Besides, the name isn't common knowledge in these parts.

Two kinds of bo-ke:

The kind I like.
All the rest.