On Cropping...

[ChristopherCoy]

I am a 'crop in camera' person, and I can't decide if thats a bad thing or not? I have learned to leave a little extra space on one side or another, because what I see in the camera, doesn't always translate to an 8x10. But overall, I still tend to shoot tight, and crop what I need when I'm shooting, rather than doing it in post.

However, I have noticed that a lot of folks will shoot with a lot of negative space, and then crop to 'compose' their image in post. This seems to work well, because you can think about the composure later, rather than having to make a split decision during the shoot, but is it truly a good thing? There are a few things that concern me about this particular way of doing things, and I'm a bit confused as to how it works.

How do you know that what you crop in post, is going to fit into a standard print size?

Let say you have a standard size image, and you crop it to a 4x4 square. This works well if you have a client that buys nothing but 8x8 and 16x16 enlargments, but what if they want a 16x20 of that image. Wouldn't you end up with distortment? Or would you have to go back to the original RAW image and reprocess the entire thing to 'make it work'?

[dlanter]

I try to "crop in camera" also, however with my 30D the actual image is slightly larger than what I saw in the viewfinder so I have to remember that. There have been shots that I wanted to print to 8x10 and the cropping for that just cut too much off. For a little while, I shot with more space to allow for cropping but I didn't like shooting like that. Lately I have been printing everything at 8X12 or equivalent ratio. Someone recently asked for an 8x10 of one of my shots but I told them I would not crop it. Buy an 8x12 frame or you don't get a print.

[HFMarshburnJR]

I do both...depending on the circumstances. However, I try to get my composition right in the camera. Sometimes (often) I find myself shooting in spaces that don't allow me to get everything out of the frame that I want in order to get the composition I want. So I fix it by cropping in post. I do try to get it "right" in the camera when I don't have those limitations.

Different horses for different courses, I guess.

[ChristopherCoy]

Originally Posted by HFMarshburnJR

I do both...depending on the circumstances. However, I try to get my composition right in the camera. Sometimes (often) I find myself shooting in spaces that don't allow me to get everything out of the frame that I want in order to get the composition I want. So I fix it by cropping in post. I do try to get it "right" in the camera when I don't have those limitations.

Different horses for different courses, I guess.

So lets say that you decide to crop it in post, and its not something that you can crop with a 'locked aspect ratio', so you have to 'free form' it (for lack of a better term.)

How do you know that your cropped size will fit into a standard size print?

[LanceHaynie]

Originally Posted by ChristopherCoy

How do you know that your cropped size will fit into a standard size print?

You could do some creative matting.

[HFMarshburnJR]

Chris -

When I crop in post, I try to crop to the original aspect ratio, leaving a little negative space in case the client wants to go from a 4x6 to a 5x7 to an 8x10 ratio. If I have something that truly demands a special crop, then I take the approach that Dan has espoused. I crop it to my dimensions and sell it one way. If it is that special and that is the best presentation - then you need to hold your ground - even if it demands a custom frame job.

[The Loft Studios]

Everything I compose "In Camera" is based off of an 8x10 crop.
All other crops simply fall into place.....

[Ernst-Ulrich Schafer]

I tend to be quite anal when cropping in the camera, it's a habit I learned when I lst started out. I do have to back things off when doing portrait work, but then at the same time I do offer my clients a custom size if the standard size crop takes away for the original image.

[reader0428]

I've just recently started using photoshop (have been using Lightroom exclusively until about a month ago) but this issue came up for me when I painstakingly retouched a photo in PS and then the family wanted a different crop, which meant I had to reprocess the whole thing over again. (I had pulled a cropped version of the photo from Lightroom into PS to edit.) What I learned from that is to do do my initial WB and exposure adjustments (if needed) in LR then do my photoshopping before I do any cropping, then bring the processed image back into Lightroom and do all my cropping on the retouched image. (I much prefer Lightroom's cropping tool to PS's anyway.)

I also tend to shoot tight - probably 80% of my shots need very little cropping, if any, but there is generally enough space in the photo to accommodate the standard aspect ratios.

[MicWayWal]

Chris,

I also try to shoot so the in-camera crop is as close as I can get to what I anticipate will be the best crop. This comes as a vestige of being a film shooter for 20 years. Get it right in camera for machine prints. Now I still shoot that way because it makes it easier to present to the client. If I have to crop before a client sees the images, I crop the original file with the crop tool to a size that is close to the original files. That way there is not much difference on my projector screen for them to view. Often I find I need to tighten up the shot by eliminating extra room. I will show the client in the sales presentation how I will crop it using PS in the sales meeting.

I go two different directions in post production for: 1. Prints that are going to be larger than the file size of the original file 8x12 @ 300dpi, 2. Smaller prints than the file size.

For orders that have prints that are larger than the original size I start by cropping for the size of the largest print using the crop tool; 20x24 @300dpi, or 30x40 @300dpi are examples. I do all my post production on that file. I don't want to make a mistake that I can not see well with a smaller file, then when the larger print is made all I can see is the mistake. Then for smaller prints of the order, I use the crop tool to crop for smaller sizes in the proportion that is ordered, like 5x7 or 8x10 @300dpi, etc.

When only small prints are going to be made I preform all my post processing on the original file size. Then using the crop too, I size according to the size ordered for the smaller prints.

Some compromise is necessary for the smaller prints sometime. A 30x40 large print will have some cropping when printed as a 5x7 or 8x10. But I show that to my client when we meet for the sales meeting in PS. I show them what I think is best and most of the time they agree with my cropping.

[jeffkohn]

Cropping is a deeply religious topic for some, who feel that any cropping after the shot is anathema. These folks will argue that real photographers "get it right in the camera", as if the 'how' of a shot matters more than the final result.

I tend to take a more pragmatic approach. The main reason to avoid excessive cropping is because it throws away resolution. This was a pretty big deal when shooting 35mm film; but with digital it might not matter much, depending on your sensor resolution and the size of prints you need to make. With even APS sensors having 12-18mp, resolution isn't much of a concern unless you need to be able to print big. So loosening up the crop in camera makes a certain amount of sense, allowing for different print formats, or slight rotations to fix a horizon, or just to make sure you don't accidentally clip an object at the edge of the frame that you didn't mean to.

And if you happen to discover that you prefer a substantially different crop in post that you feel makes the image stronger, by all means go with it. But if you're making big crops on a regular basis (especially for reasons other than print aspect ratios), that may be a sign that you should be putting a little more thought into your compositions at the time of shooting. Just because cropping is so easy with digital, doesn't mean you shouldn't think about composition when shooting. The more thought and effort you put into your images at shooting time, the better the results are likely to be.

[Abel]

I crop in camera and I only shoot with 2:3 ratio (8x12") prints in mind... i hate to discard 16% of my usable sensor/megapixels just to accomodate a 8x10" sized image.

I'm 2:3 ratio all the way...

is it harder to find frames and such? yes, but do i care? No, hehe. i just get mattes or DIY Frame Kits... =)

[hue-e]

I tend to shot with a little extra, then crop in post.

but then again, I typically do it for graphic design purposes and don't know how much room I'll need for this/that/the other once I'm actually putting the final product together.