Photography color problem on the internet

[Canon88]

The problem:
I'm uploading my photographs from my computer to a website, DeviantArt.com, and the color ALWAYS ***ing changes - and when i mean change, i mean the color is different on the website from that of the original, which is say, sitting on my desktop. It didn't used to be like this, and on Flickr.com, the image color is the same as the original. So why is this happening?

***UPDATE***: I've discovered that on the same computer on which I'm editing and posting pictures that the web-browser also makes a difference. Color is accurate on flickr.com when using Mac's Safari but not when I use Firefox.
(Regardless, the image is still screwy on different computers).

Here's what I'm using:
MacBook Pro with OS X Version 10.4.10
Adobe Photoshop Lightroom version 1.2
Adobe Photoshop Cs2 version 9.0.2
Canon Rebel XT

Here's my photo-editing process:
Images are opened in Adobe Photoshop Lightroom, edited - then from here I click on the photograph and choose "Edit in Adobe Photoshop Cs2", where the photograph is then opened in Cs2. From there i make additional changes and save the photo as an RGB Color at 8 Bits/Channel JPEG file.

What's up with the color accuracy being off on certain websites, such as DeviantArt, but correct on others, like Flickr?

Examples:
Deviant Art: http://silverskies07.deviantart.com/...-No-1-68876075
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenmasker/1844883639/

Deviant Art: http://silverskies07.deviantart.com/...Vogue-69439261
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephenmasker/1968845202/


PLEASE HELP!
-Stephen

[AndrewCCM]

Be sure you are exporting your web images with sRGB colorspace.

If in any other colorspace (AdobeRGB for instance), your color will look off while viewing in a browser.

[Canon88]

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

Be sure you are exporting your web images with sRGB colorspace.

If in any other colorspace (AdobeRGB for instance), your color will look off while viewing in a browser.

I don't understand how to do this. Is it a way in which you specify how the jpeg file should be saved when you do save it in Cs2?

[AndrewCCM]

I am using CS3 and know it changed... But just look on your pull down menus for "CONVERT to Profile".. CONVERT.. NOT Assign. Set to sRGB.

Do this prior to saving...

[Canon88]

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

I am using CS3 and know it changed... But just look on your pull down menus for "CONVERT to Profile".. CONVERT.. NOT Assign. Set to sRGB.

Do this prior to saving...

You are right. And man, that's been bothering me for a long time. Thanks very much for your help.

[AndrewCCM]

Glad to help!

[srwatters]

Watch which browser you use to view your images also. Safari is a color space aware browser. It will properly display web images with other than sRGB space. It's my guess that one site is stripping the color space tag from the image after you upload it so when you see it in Safari, it will assume sRGB and interpret the colors incorrectly.

If you use any other browser, you would see the same incorrect image on all web sites.

A good reference on the subject is Bruce Fraser's "Real World Color Management".

[MMPhoto]

In photoshop you can go to Edit>Color Settings. If your workspace is SRGB, make sure the box is checked to convert all documents to your working RGB.

Sometimes my photoshop settings reset themselves and I notice the problem you are having. It looks fine in PS but not on the web. Its because in PS you are seeing it in SRGB but its not coverting the file to SRGB.

[srwatters]

Originally Posted by MMPhoto

In photoshop you can go to Edit>Color Settings. If your workspace is SRGB, make sure the box is checked to convert all documents to your working RGB.

If you are not doing any editing beyond crop and/or resize this suggestion is acceptable in my opinion, however if you are adjusting color, contrast, or doing any other editing of your images in Photoshop, I suggest you chose a larger color space as your working space. You will degrade the image more so in a smaller color space when making these types of changes. Please see my suggested text or search the web for examples of the different color spaces and their advantages/disadvantages and make your own decision.

Originally Posted by MMPhoto

Its because in PS you are seeing it in SRGB but its not coverting the file to SRGB.

You don't 'see' the image in sRGB. Your display will represent the image in the color gamut that it is capable of displaying. This has little to do with sRGB. Typical displays do indeed cover the sRGB space and a few will accurately cover the Adobe RGB space and a little beyond. What you see on the display is an interpretation of the digital data in your image. Consider the analogy of doing mathematics with integers vs. real (or fractional) numbers. There will be errors when using integers, but for some applications, that error isn't significant (like when dealing with money, anything beyond $.01 doesn't matter). However if you add enough of those fractional amounts together, it can and will make a difference in your final image. This is why you should use a larger color gamut when editing your images, then convert to the appropriate color space for your desired display medium (sRGB for the web, NTSC for US television, the printer/paper gamut for prints, etc.).

Again I'll suggest the book listed in my prior post if you want to learn about color management of digital workflow.

[MMPhoto]

Thanks for the link Scott. I was just simply trying to tell him what solved my problem when it was way off.

So you are saying I should edit in something like Adobe RGB and then change it to SRGB before sending to the lab?

I have not had my coffee yet.

[srwatters]

If you are making prints and want the most accurate color, I would suggest you at least use aRGB as your working color space. If your work will be commercially reproduced on printing presses, then even more so.

Personally I use the ProPhoto color space (in 16 bit mode) to insure that I'm not tossing any data. Of course my images are twice as large to store as masters, but if sometime down the road the technology is available to accurately show them on the displays, I'll be ready.

Consider the difference between regular NTSC television and HDTV. Notice how bright and saturated the colors look in HDTV? That's because it uses ITU 709 color space rather than the old NTSC (ITU 601). Older TV recordings are mapped to the new HD space. In photography we are hit with the opposite issue. Our sensors can capture 14 bit data, but our display technology isn't there yet. I'd like to make sure my product ready for it, rather than being outdated.

What a nerd, huh?

[MMPhoto]

I love it when I learn something before 10am. Thanks Scott, its really good to know actually.

[AndrewCCM]

Scott... What camera body are you using that captures 14bit?

Are the new Nikon's 14 rather than 12-bit (similar to the newer Canons)?

I know there is a debate about 12bit RAW vs. 14bit and whether it does anything in perceptual reality... I am on the side you seem to subscribe to...keep as much as possible until necessary to convert. I know personally that with may Mark III's 14bit files I can recover from incorrect exposure better than I can with my 5D's 12 bit files. Most of the time you cannot tell the difference, but when having to make adjustments...I can definitely tell...I have a bit more latitude to work with...

[srwatters]

I will be using the D3 as soon as I get it...

Yes, both the D3 and D300 have 14 bit mode for RAW images.