Does this monitor issue make since?

[Gateruner]

I recently went the LCD panel route and to be honest I am pretty unhappy with it at this point. Probably through money at a monitor that isnt the best for photo editing but that is another story. Before the new panel I used a calibrated CRT (Dell with spyder2express) and what I sent to print came back really close to what I viewed onscreen. Now the prints are really dark but look nice on the monitor. This tells me the thing is to bright so I lowered the brightness to 0 and re calibrated and there is still a big difference. I had read somewhere to leave the graphics card settings alone so I havent touched them, yet.

At this point I decided to send the prints to another lab and see if they return the same or not. Once they return I am thinking about comparing them to see if it was a lab or my system(I am expecting it to be my system) Assuming the photos return identical could I use them as a measuring tool to try to tweak the brightness by adjusting the setting in the card. (Nvidia gx5500 I think) Get the settings as close to the prints as possible. This would be a huge trial and error deal including adjusting the brightness and re-calibrating each time then compare.

So what are your thoughts? Try it and see? Scrap the monitor and spring for a LaCie or something in between?

Looked like Coby recommended a Samsung at some point but I keep reading they are a luck of the draw deal.

Any help or advice would be appreciated as I am beginning to have a backlog of work that cant be finished until this is straight.

[AndrewCCM]

I have my Dell 24" at 0 on the monitor and about 88% on the video card Nvidia 8600GTS

It required the additional 12% reduction to get the luminance correct. Works great now. Most LCDs out there are geared for kiosk type viewing...nice and bright. But that doesn't equate to calibrated.

[Gateruner]

Andrew, what do you use to calibrate it? I have spyder2express and it really give you no options on adjusting or telling you what the luminance is? My biggest issue now is I have lost confidence in the entire system. What a night mare.

[AndrewCCM]

EyeOne Display2 (I borrow it from a friend from time to time).

Maybe create a few test prints.. watermark them or something with various luminance levels.. Send to the printer and see which comes out the closest. Kinda kludgy, but I bet it would be a cheap way to figure it out or at least get pretty darn close.

My R2400 printer at home prints nearly identical to my LCD as does my lab (WHCC).

[nyphotopro]

This kind of problem has to do with: viewing environment, monitor and video card.

To get a near-perfect match, I opted to buy the NEC 2690 WUXi-SV-BK, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than the EIZO 26 inch and yields a near-perfect match (within 1-2% of the display). Part of the reason the NEC does so well is because it has a 12-bit LUT and its light engine can be fully controlled via its software.

It comes with a Spectravision II software and a modified Gretag-Macbeth eyeOne spectrocolorimeter. And, using the software to control the display, I set the white cd/m2 levels to 120 and the black point to .60, the color temp to 6500K (sRGB) and the gamma to 2.2. These are so-called "ideal" settings, some adjustment may be required.

I also had to change my viewing environment, too. It is now 32-lux (very low light) and slightly side-lit with a Solux 50w 4700K 36 degree viewing lamp. This lamp is as close to daylight in all wavelengths as you'll get in a cost-effective package ($113 from Harrington Lamps in N.H.)

I'm using the stock video card in a MacPro, an NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT with 256MB. It is programmable also but it is always better to adjust the monitor first because adjusting the LUT in the LCD AND the LUT in the video card results in a moving target that makes it nearly impossible to get everything calibrated and working properly.

While it might be possible to adjust the video-LCD combination that you have, my experience of Dell displays is that they are built for spreadsheets, not photographic work.

[JohnT]

Originally Posted by AndrewCCM

I have my Dell 24" at 0 on the monitor and about 88% on the video card Nvidia 8600GTS

How did you do this? Through the calibration system?

[nyphotopro]

John:

Gamma is usually a setting in the system software and changes a bit register on the video card.

Color temp at 6500K is a setting in most displays, via their own settings feature.

But black point and white point are direct settings in the LUT of the LCD. In the 2690's display, these are adjusted by Spectravision software or the button controls. The software was A LOT easier.

There's only two ways to change white and black point - either you do it in the LCD or you do it in the video card (or a little of both). I would always choose the display. It is much easier to make these changes, and, if you screw it up, much easier to fix.

I like your tagline. One of my favorite quotes from C.S. Lewis.

Matt

[nyphotopro]

Here's a screen shot of the settings file:

[Gateruner]

Thanks Matt. I know the Dell CRT isnt really the optimal solution but it has been closer to right on the prints than the LCD. My guess is that I screwed myself when I read what a good monitor should be and tried to compromise and get one that had most of the optimal settings. Who knows. But I am in a situation where I need to have the thing working for about 2 weeks and at that point I can play with it or decide to spend more cash. Right now I have reset the CRT, calibrated it and it is coming REALLY close to matching the prints that I just got back from WHCC. I am going to re-process them and brighten them up ands send off for another round of test prints before I input my last brides order. I would rather only pay that once. I ma going to check out the NEC and see what it will set me back. I have looked at the LaCie 320 and it seems to have some nice reviews.

Matt, do you view your prints under that light you mentioned or is that the light you keep on in your room?

My last thing is I am thinking that the Spyder2express is just to basic to get the LCD right and I probably should move on to a better unit/software. Looks like I have something else that is going to keep me from getting a 5D. I need a money tree.

[Gateruner]

I have no option in the software to alter the individual white and black points. And I never get something like your screen shot.

[CobyPhoto]

Scott,

SOrry I didn't have time to go into this this morning when I got your PM. Andrew controls his the luminace via his VIDEO CARD utility that comes with the PNY GT8600. That helps a great deal to have controls like that on the viedo card when dropping the luminace down to 0 on the monitor still doesn't bring your LCD into range.

Not knowing what your system is, video card etc. I can't really pin point the issue that is causing the problem. However, this is common when moving to a new monitor and all the more common when moving from CRT to LCD.

I don't use the Spyder Pro. I use the Xrite Eye1Display2 and love it. There is usually, an advance and easy calibration in the beginning of the process. You will only get the luminace and temp adjustments etc. if you choose the advance or expert user option when running the calibration software.

I have 3 of the better Samsungs, and I am hard pressed to find any faults with them. I also have some Accer's similar to the one you have and while they aren't top of the line, with a little tweaking and calibration they will work pretty nicely.

Start by telling us what video card you have in your computer. Then we can go from there and see if we can get you lined out better and back to where you are comfotable with your results.

CJ

[Gateruner]

Thanks Coby. I am using the Nvidia FX5500 video card. It isnt the best but it is as good as I can get for the computer I have right now. Trying to upgrade what I think are the critical parts of the mess first. I have a Spyder2express which is the base model. I really dont think I am getting satisfactory results with it and there are essentially no controls in the software to adjust much of anything. For instance if I calibrate the CRT it asks t put the contrast on the factory settings or adjust it on the CRT itself to be able to view a line of boxes. It is on 100%. It asks to do the brightness as well. Tonight I tried to adjust the brightness and contrast by eye and I got the CRT to just about match what was sent to me in print. Then ran the calibration and it brightened everything up again. If I had hair I would be yanking it out.

[timbertoes]

this link, to tom's hardware, may not be a first stop for photo people. and they dont have every monitor under the sun tested.

But they do test them with a calibrator, in a methodology that is exactly what we need.
some sacred brands dont fare as well as one might think.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphics...ays/index.html

[nyphotopro]

Originally Posted by Gateruner

Matt, do you view your prints under that light you mentioned or is that the light you keep on in your room?

Yes, I do. And that's what is so cool about having a really good, color accurate workflow. You get a very, very close match between monitor and print. But, it is important to remember that displays use TRANSMISSIVE light and prints and viewing lighting use REFLECTIVE light. There will always be a slight difference.

[nyphotopro]

Originally Posted by Gateruner

I have no option in the software to alter the individual white and black points. And I never get something like your screen shot.

The screenshot is from the Spectravision II software from NEC that works with the supplied rebranded Gretag MacBeth eyeOne spectrocolorimeter (hockey puck). Your monitor won't have controls like these. It'll be something less friendly, if it has black and white point adjustments at all. The NEC 2690 is a professional, color-accurate, fully adjustable LCD designed for serious color work - and is a lot cheaper than the EIZO's and better than LaCie for nearly the same price point.

And, if you know anyone who needs one, I happen to have an extra, brand new 2690 (with the software and hockey puck) for sale. I bought an extra for a client project and the client cancelled after the return period was up. And, of course, he doesn't feel like he should pay for it. That's how I ended up with an extra MacPro, too. I'm also selling it.