Lightroom general questions

[Dobick]

I recently purchased lightroom, after giving it a try on several different computers at various times, and I loved the workflow power that it gave me.

This weekend, I finally sat down, freed up some redundant files, as well as some trash on my computer and made plenty of room. I first consolidated all of my digital negatives (photos straight from the camera 90% raw, 10% jpgs) into a few folders, and then set about importing.

This led to a catalogue that contains over 22000 images. Needless to say, the program is running very slow.

A few general philosophical questions come to mind, and I am not sure how to approach it:

1) It will take me a few weeks of intense work, to go through all of the photos and rate them, and decide a good or bad status. So I can cull them down to probably 1/4th of the current size just by that alone. After I get that done, is there any way to mark and seperate the good shots from the bad on the disk? That is question/option 1.

2) Second thing I could do, is to go back in to the source files and move all the files according to the year that they were taken, and create a separate catalogue for each year. But with that option, I lose the continuity, of (for example) all football pictures.

and now for the future concerns
When importing a new shoot, would you:

a) just make a new folder for the raw files, inside of the source photo directory

b) let lightroom import them and move them to that source folder

c) some other option.

My reasoning for arranging everything in this way so far, has been, because I wanted to have all the photos in the same place, so that links would not get broken in lightroom.

Am I way off, and need to attend a digital asset management class, or is the set structure something I can work within, without having to redo the entire weekends worth of work.

Honestly before I did a search online, I thought that lightroom would be able to effectively handle tens of thousands of images effectively. I guess that was a bit naive.

[SaundraU]

I have lightroom and this is what I find works for me. I use a external HD for all my photos and everything is in Raw. I allow the photos to download into the lightroom directory by date. I then go in a rename my file for the event type it is. i.e. trott brook cross country, trott brook stadium, etc.

[trahanw]

Learned how to label photos with date of shot, category , then first lastname. Example: 20080128_100_Alice Mayfield001. Seperate folder with an index. Example: Wedding 100, Portraits 200, Lanscape 300, Headshots 400, etc. When searching for files if it's a wedding I go to the 100 and so on. Learned this from a Master Photographer that is on this forum Ed Broussard. Helped me.

[TxManx]

Kent -

After playing with Lightroom - and facing the same initial problem you have, I did the following:

I created a folder called Chronological. I then created subfolders for 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 (etc...) and one called 'Pre-2004)

I moved all of my pictures into those folders, using the date sort feature of Windows Explorer as a rough guide as to what goes where. Most of mine were in folders based on subject, so the entire folders went into the 'year' folders above.

When that was done, I opened Lightroom with a new catalog and imported all of them.

Then I went folder to folder, and any picture I didn't like, I pressed 'x' (which flags the photo as rejected.)

When I finished an entire subfolder, I sorted by rejected status' to ensure I was trashing only the junk, and then in the 'Library' mode, I deleted all rejected photos (and chose the option to delete them from disk).

As my skill increases, I look back through each year, and get rid of those that no longer look as good (exceptions are snapshot and personal photos).

As time goes by, I'll work a folder and tag them with information for sorting (so later, I can group by subject, or person, or year...like you're comment regarding football pictures).

My thought is that when I'm completely done with a year, I can export the year into it's own Catalog, burn the whole thing to DVDs and be done with those...culling the very few that have stock potential, or that I might want for my photo screensaver.

Now...on to my new workflow...

I use Lightroom to import from my CF reader - into the current year's subfolder, and into a subfolder relating to what the pictures are of, tagging them with my copyright information, renaming them appropriately and filling in the metadata for catalog purposes.

I then do a quick scan and 'x' the ones that are obvious discards and delete them. A few days later, I go back through (after the emotion of the shoot is gone) and get rid of more of them...

I then rename all of the 'keepers' and start the processing...using stars or colors to indicate those i want to print or need post work, etc...

A long post, I know...but there are books dedicated to the concept of workflow...and I never bought any of them. I wish I had run across this workflow concept earlier...but instead it evolved and it's still evolving...

I can't stress how much I love Lightroom - even though it can get slow and bogged down when there are more than 5-6000 images being kept in a single catalog...

Ken

[MT Stringer]

A bit off topic, but can Lightroom be used stand alone or does it have to be used with Photoshop? I don't have PS, but I use Paint Shop Pro XI instead.
Thanks
Mike

[Dobick]

Originally Posted by MT Stringer

A bit off topic, but can Lightroom be used stand alone or does it have to be used with Photoshop? I don't have PS, but I use Paint Shop Pro XI instead.
Thanks
Mike

It can be used standalone. It integrates pretty well with bridge, but is perfectly capable of working all on it's own. Makes a pretty powerful program to get the most out of your photos without going into levels, etc.

[Dobick]

Originally Posted by TxManx

Kent -

After playing with Lightroom - and facing the same initial problem you have, I did the following:

I created a folder called Chronological. I then created subfolders for 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007 (etc...) and one called 'Pre-2004)

I moved all of my pictures into those folders, using the date sort feature of Windows Explorer as a rough guide as to what goes where. Most of mine were in folders based on subject, so the entire folders went into the 'year' folders above.

When that was done, I opened Lightroom with a new catalog and imported all of them.

Then I went folder to folder, and any picture I didn't like, I pressed 'x' (which flags the photo as rejected.)

When I finished an entire subfolder, I sorted by rejected status' to ensure I was trashing only the junk, and then in the 'Library' mode, I deleted all rejected photos (and chose the option to delete them from disk).

As my skill increases, I look back through each year, and get rid of those that no longer look as good (exceptions are snapshot and personal photos).

As time goes by, I'll work a folder and tag them with information for sorting (so later, I can group by subject, or person, or year...like you're comment regarding football pictures).

My thought is that when I'm completely done with a year, I can export the year into it's own Catalog, burn the whole thing to DVDs and be done with those...culling the very few that have stock potential, or that I might want for my photo screensaver.

Now...on to my new workflow...

I use Lightroom to import from my CF reader - into the current year's subfolder, and into a subfolder relating to what the pictures are of, tagging them with my copyright information, renaming them appropriately and filling in the metadata for catalog purposes.

I then do a quick scan and 'x' the ones that are obvious discards and delete them. A few days later, I go back through (after the emotion of the shoot is gone) and get rid of more of them...

I then rename all of the 'keepers' and start the processing...using stars or colors to indicate those i want to print or need post work, etc...

A long post, I know...but there are books dedicated to the concept of workflow...and I never bought any of them. I wish I had run across this workflow concept earlier...but instead it evolved and it's still evolving...

I can't stress how much I love Lightroom - even though it can get slow and bogged down when there are more than 5-6000 images being kept in a single catalog...

Ken

Thank you for the detailed description.

In the past, I have always done the manual foldering by subject name, and usually included a date stamp in there. But with lightroom, that sort of foldering seems a bit redundant.

I do have a question -- when you say that you "get rid of" are you meaning gone/deleted/never recoverable? I don't think that I want to do that. Maybe I keep thinking that those throwaway shots, may be needed someday? You know the ones -- it's infocus, and the framing isn't bad, but it nothing special, maybe it's a cheerleader, or possibly a player on the sideline -- who knows, it's just that I don't like the idea of permanent deletes. If there is a way to move the file to a general holding folder, that would be what I want. I guess I can still use photomechanic for digital management.

[TxManx]

Originally Posted by Dobick

Thank you for the detailed description.

In the past, I have always done the manual foldering by subject name, and usually included a date stamp in there. But with lightroom, that sort of foldering seems a bit redundant.

I do have a question -- when you say that you "get rid of" are you meaning gone/deleted/never recoverable? I don't think that I want to do that. Maybe I keep thinking that those throwaway shots, may be needed someday? You know the ones -- it's infocus, and the framing isn't bad, but it nothing special, maybe it's a cheerleader, or possibly a player on the sideline -- who knows, it's just that I don't like the idea of permanent deletes. If there is a way to move the file to a general holding folder, that would be what I want. I guess I can still use photomechanic for digital management.

Yep...gone as in forever... things like a 20 capture series over the course of 2-3 seconds...I'll pick the best two or three, and the rest go...

When doing event snapshots with the family, I've finally realized that I don't need 40 pictures of Mom opening her presents, some with odd expressions on her face...:) I keep the best three or four and get rid of the rest...

I'm less casual about throwing away scenics, but lately, if they don't 'do it' for me, then I get rid of them...:)

To each their own, right?

Ken

[billbunton]

Remember that, now that you've imported all those 22,000 images, Lightroom has to build previews for them! This takes a while. I'd suggest getting LR up with all the images on the grid (All Photographs selected under library), select them all, then select Library->Previews->Render Standard-Sized Previews. Come back in a couple days (well, maybe not quite that long, but it'll take a long time!) and you should fine it much faster.

[Dobick]

Originally Posted by billbunton

Remember that, now that you've imported all those 22,000 images, Lightroom has to build previews for them! This takes a while. I'd suggest getting LR up with all the images on the grid (All Photographs selected under library), select them all, then select Library->Previews->Render Standard-Sized Previews. Come back in a couple days (well, maybe not quite that long, but it'll take a long time!) and you should fine it much faster.

Great idea -- I'll check that out.

Thank you.

[Peruna]

I had a similar problem and here was my solution.

I have one catalog called "Import." I use this catalog to import directly from my CF card reader, add meta-data, and then sort thru the photos looking for keepers and one's for the trash. I black flag (x) the the one's that aren't good enough, white flag (f) the one's I think are my best, and do not flag one's I don't want to delete but also do not think are all that strong. I filter the black flag photos and delete completely (they were previously saved to a DVD before import so I can always bring them back). With the unflagged and flagged photos selected, I export as a catalog.

My second catalog is named "Main." I import from the exported catalog created in step one (unflagged and flagged photos). This catalog is my slow clearinghouse catalog with all my photos I think are worth not deleting. I use this catalog only for looking for images using the keywords I created in the meta-data step.

My third catalog is called "Top Shelf". These are all the photos I flagged in step 1. After step 2 I go back to the "Import" catalog and filter for flagged images and export these images as a catalog and then import them into "Top Shelf". This catalog of my best images is where I do my editing, rating of images, etc. I try to keep this as pared down as possible and do this by removing images I think on a second look are not strong enough. It's important that these photos are removed from the catalog rather than deleted. That makes sure that the image is not deleted from the hard drive and therefore remains in the "main" catalog where I can search for them if I need them.

Once these three steps are completed. I go back to my "Import" catalog and "remove" all images so that it's empty, therefore fast, for the next import.

I find it a good system, given the current limitations of LR.

[Photographer557]

What Bill said above is correct. It will be faster after you let it build all the previews.

It will also be quicker if you highlight and look at subfolders of pictures rather than highlighting and looking at the top level folder which shows all pictures.

Just curious, did you import into light room or reference the pictures at their location?

Another way to file those photos is to just dump them into a folder until the folder is filled up to about 4.2 gb then create a new folder and fill it up to 4.2 gb and so on. Then you can go back and keyword all your photos copy to External Hard Drive and burn each folder to a DVD. I recently did the same thing you are doing and this has worked very well for me. I also copied all "buckets" over to the External Hard drive and then deleted the buckets of pictures off my computer. I then re-imported to lightroom, referencing the pictures in place. I now only keep working photos on my computer and all the archived photos on EHD. Having re-imported the EHD photos they are still accessible in lightroom should I want to work on some of them in the future. I simply type in a keyword and they pull right up.

Here is an example of the type of file structure I used:


Raw_001_20080129 (4.2 gb folder/bucket)
-Brothers Wedding
-kids soccer (subject name for identifying this folder of pictures)
--Cutler20071215-1315.NEF (unique individual photo name)
--Cutler20071215-1316.NEF
-work photos

Raw_002_20080129


I hope this helps some.

[rwwright]

i do not find lightroom slow. I do keep two catalogs, one is a catalog of my 1 tb disk drive with all of my photos for several years, one is just this year and selections from last year. building the catalog of the old photos took awhile, but it is pretty quick to load it and find photos i am looking for. The current files catalog is quick. 4000 images in current catalog, 30,000 in 1tb disk drive(about 600 gb). i mostly use the default settings.

I keep all of my photos, except really really bad ones. I shoot 99% raw on d2x - d300. I use lightroom to transfer photos from cards to my computer. they are renamed at that time to include the date and origional file name, stored in directories by download and date. I rename the directories in lightroom to include something about the photos so that the directory name ends up something like "2007 0506 Vermont"

just to review photos, i do some development in lightroom but do my major processing in CS3. Often I use lightroom instead of bridge.

I do try to assign photos to keyword tags, but am too lazy to do it well.

i am not a pro and dont have to manage customer photos.

[Dobick]

Ok -- so I finally have standard sized previews for all of the photos in the catalogue, and ya'll were right, it is much more responsive. There is a small bit of lag, but nothing that is intolerable.

I also have decided to go with a two pronged attack on the import of photos, and general workflow. For immediate review and initial inspection for the glaring problems like completely out of focus shots, etc, it is hard to beat photomechanic. I can also keyword the shots, and do a general metatag update at that point, as well as a full rename. Once that is done, I will drop the original into a folder that is being "watched" from the auto import, and it should take care of it. The only problem that I have with this is the fact that it seems to do them as a one at a time import, which will mean that the last import will only have 1 photo listed. Not a huge deal I guess, and there are several ways around this.

All in all -- based on everyone's suggestions as well as a little bit of reading online -- I think I am going to have a system that I can use effectively and efficiently

[Photographer557]

Dobick,

In your last post you stated you were going to keep using Photomechanic and a number of reasons why.
You do realize that Lightroom does all the things you just mentioned in your last post, don't you?