Adding Strobes - Indoor Sports

[ldelacruz]

Matt,
Have you tried calling Paul C. Buff and Elinchrom to ask their thoughts? It would be interesting to see what they would recommend for your application?

[khatley]

Originally Posted by Matt_G

Sounds good... I had Plano rink set up perfect for ice skating one time...4 lights. Only be told no flash during performance 10 minutes before the start. I had approval from everyone up the chain of the organization running the thing, but the main judge (or whatever they are called) wasnt having it.

Im sure you love the color chaging lights at the Stars rinks as much as me. You can actually see the walls glow from yellow to white with your eyes.

Yeah Plano is one of the worst. We experimented with using gels to match ambient light last weekend at the high school finals in Farmer's for the post game stuff and I was extremely pleased with the results...I sure wish there was a way to add a little fill all over the rink and keep high shutter speeds so we can do the same during a game without having to use flash to freeze action...just a little extra in the dark spots is all I want!

[ldelacruz]

Here is an explanation by PCB. I am glad you brought this up because it is good info to know. Looks like PCB would recommend their Zeus brand of lights. Their new digital Einstein lights say 1/10,000 t1 flash duration for revolutionary action stopping. I couldn't find anything in Elinchrom.

Paul C. Buff FORUM Archive • View topic - Flash Duration Explained

[dminton]

Matt, first off as far a build quality, the Elinchroms are in a different class from the White Lightnings. Like moving from a Chevette to a Porsche. They are very very well made and actually have less parts to break (digital controls vs sliders and knobs). And the Elinchrom accessories are much better, especially the sports reflector. With the Elinchroms you can have a much more complete and comprehensive studio flash system when you're not using them to light arenas.

And as for the flash durations here ya go. The Elinchrom RX600 at full power is 1/2050 sec. The X1600 is 1/1800 sec.

Straight from the Buff and Elinchrom websites:

[ldelacruz]

David,
The faster the duration the better for sports?

[Matt_G]

Correct Lonnie, given its the same power. Almost all strobes have better flash duration at lower power. The issue with the Elinchrom info is that is the t5 duration. I dont know the t1 duration which is much more important. If there is a formula to figure it out fom t5 I dont know it.

If I could find the t1 duration for the Elinchrom I would feel much better about my decision.

And David you mentioned the exact reason why I want to upgrade with overall quality and performance in the studio. Just dont want to be going backwards in the sports area where I do a lot of work as well.

I do appreciate your time and thoughts!

[gregt1310]

Wow - good stuff.

What is the difference between t.1 and t.5 duration?

[Matt_G]

If I understand it correct...

T times are telling you the time that the flash is at some percent of total output for any given power setting.


From Paul Buff (thanks Lonnie)

The standard engineering term for expressing flash duration is T.5. This specifies the time the intensity of the flash is above 50% of its maximum value. Because of the exponential discharge curve of light output, another 50% of light is emitted after the T.5 time period and can add considerable motion blur.

Because of this, the T.1 spec was introduced to give the user a better idea of the action stopping effectiveness of a flash unit. T.1 specifies the length of time the intensity is above 10% of maximum and is thus more closely relates to an equivalent camera shutter speed in terms of how well action can be stopped with flash.

If the T.1 time is not specified, the user can reliably expect it to be approximately 3 times as long as the T.5 spec. Thus, a unit simply specified as having a flash duration of 1/1000 second can assume this to be the T.5 spec, and can expect the T.1 performance and effective action stopping to be approximately 1/300 second.

So at full power the WL1600 is 1/600 and using approximate math above the RX600's would be about 1/650. Not any worse so thats good, but I was hoping for better.

[khatley]

Originally Posted by ldelacruz

David,
The faster the duration the better for sports?

Yes, since your camera can only sync at 1/200-300 your stop motion is based on flash duration...if your ambient light is high or if your flash duration is long then you will have ghosting issues. So then you set your camera to be not be too sensitive to light compensate but then your background is black...it is very tricky balance!

[ldelacruz]

Double post

[ldelacruz]

Originally Posted by Matt_G

If I understand it correct...

T times are telling you the time that the flash is at some percent of total output for any given power setting.


From Paul Buff (thanks Lonnie)


So at full power the WL1600 is 1/600 and using approximate math above the RX600's would be about 1/650. Not any worse so thats good, but I was hoping for better.

Matt,
Just a thought but have you read up on the Einstein lights from PCB? Paul C. Buff, Inc. Einstein Pre-Order Page t1 flash duration of 1/10,000. They are supposed to be consistant, fast duration and digital. They look promising.

[Matt_G]

Yes, but still no solid release date...although it does look like first batch might ship this week. I just really need them this week but HAVE to have them pretty soon.
Am looking into renting/borrowing for this week until I get a solid idea on timeframe and maybe some prelim. results.

[dminton]

Matt, LightTec has the Elinchrom EL-1000 for rent. The Style line replaced them; basically the same thing, just a little older. Get em, use em, decide. $35 for a weekend to rent a pair of them.

[Matt_G]

Thanks again David..