Football Flash (Again)

[Comanche]

Yeah - I know - football is over. At least for me it is.

This is a question for those of you who use a flash while shooting high school football.

Some background - I shoot two bodies, one with a 300 f2.8 and the other with a 70-200 f2.8. I use the 300 for 80% of my shots. Generally speaking, I much prefer not to use flash, both because I prefer the "look" of using the stadium lights as well as preferring to get the maximum frames per second from my camera rather than having to slow it down for flash.

But, for any of you who have shot HS FB, you know shooting from the back of the end zone offers great shots, but HAS the worse lighting. The light towers are near the 20 yard line, so any shots are going to be backlit and in shadow - plus the running back will be in the shadows of the linemen.

I decided to put a flash on my second body, set it to synch at 1/300 and use a Quantum Turbo external battery pack to get me a reliable 3 frames per second. Yes - the flash is mounted on the hotshoe. (Gimme a break - I'm already dragging around a 300 on a monopod along with the 70-200 on my shoulder. Using a flash bracket just seems too much.)

The results have been mixed.

I get occasional red eye from having the flash near the same axis as the lens, but I can take care of that in post.

I also get "white eye", and that seems to come when the subject is not looking at the camera. I have no idea what causes this.

Finally, some shots show a lot of ghosting. I know that is caused by the flash not overpowering the ambient light, but I don't know how to fix it. I also know 1/300 is not always fast enough to freeze the action, but this is ghosting, not motion blur.

For the most part, I like what I am getting. I only use this in the end zone, but I'd like to improve for next year.

Ideas?

[CallMeAl]

Doug,
Check out this Heritage @ Newman Smith - Image: 1. MaxPreps Photography
I watched this guy shoot this game and have tried to set up my rig as he does, but ran out of games before I got it right. He's mostly shooting a 300 or 400 lens and has his flash mounted upside on his monopod about 18 inches from camera. I was told, don't know if it's true or not, but that MaxPreps requires you to shoot at no higher than 800 iso and to use flash. Regardless, his shots are clear and well lit. I just always have to remember that he's not always shooting for the action of the play, but to capture as many different players as possible to increase sales. I too like the look of the non-flash photos, but moving the flash below on the monopod really lights up the face (inside the helmet) and I didn't have any red eye. It's worth trying.

[boxofrocks]

Check out this post/thread:

http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum...tml#post539892

[John Godwin]

Hello Doug

While no expert I can elaborate on some of my experiences with using a flash.

"I also get "white eye", and that seems to come when the subject is not looking at the camera. I have no idea what causes this."

I have had to use the flash mounted on the camera for two football games. Never again. The number of 'white eye' shots was to high with the flash mounted on the camera. Move the flash about 2 feet above as in my case or below if you prefer and the number of 'white eye' shots will drop dramatically. I have not run the numbers but suspect that the number of 'white eye' shots will drop from 50 percent or more to less than 10 percent.

"Finally, some shots show a lot of ghosting. I know that is caused by the flash not overpowering the ambient light, but I don't know how to fix it. I also know 1/300 is not always fast enough to freeze the action, but this is ghosting, not motion blur."

Ghosting is tough. To help me I use manual exposure on the camera and set the exposure so that it is 2 stops below ambient. I use ETTL on the flash. That does not get rid of all the ghosting. To get rid of most ghosting you would have to set the exposure to about 4 or more stops below ambient. That way the flash will freeze the action. The problem with that method is the range of the flash is dramatically decreased. Shooting way below ambient has its trade offs and only you can decide how far you are willing to go. Since you are wanting to use the flash from behind the end zone take advantage of the fact that some of the more dramatic shots will be the ones where the players are coming directly towards you. In other words avoid shots where there is a lot of lateral movement. Below is an example of an end zone shot. With little ghosting and no 'white' or 'red' eye.

[KdLaneJr]

Originally Posted by Comanche

Yeah - I know - football is over. At least for me it is.

This is a question for those of you who use a flash while shooting high school football.

Some background - I shoot two bodies, one with a 300 f2.8 and the other with a 70-200 f2.8. I use the 300 for 80% of my shots. Generally speaking, I much prefer not to use flash, both because I prefer the "look" of using the stadium lights as well as preferring to get the maximum frames per second from my camera rather than having to slow it down for flash.

But, for any of you who have shot HS FB, you know shooting from the back of the end zone offers great shots, but HAS the worse lighting. The light towers are near the 20 yard line, so any shots are going to be backlit and in shadow - plus the running back will be in the shadows of the linemen.

I decided to put a flash on my second body, set it to synch at 1/300 and use a Quantum Turbo external battery pack to get me a reliable 3 frames per second. Yes - the flash is mounted on the hotshoe. (Gimme a break - I'm already dragging around a 300 on a monopod along with the 70-200 on my shoulder. Using a flash bracket just seems too much.)

The results have been mixed.

I get occasional red eye from having the flash near the same axis as the lens, but I can take care of that in post.

I also get "white eye", and that seems to come when the subject is not looking at the camera. I have no idea what causes this.

Finally, some shots show a lot of ghosting. I know that is caused by the flash not overpowering the ambient light, but I don't know how to fix it. I also know 1/300 is not always fast enough to freeze the action, but this is ghosting, not motion blur.

For the most part, I like what I am getting. I only use this in the end zone, but I'd like to improve for next year.

Ideas?

Doug,
I shot for a season with the flash upside down on the monopod. While the photos generally were good, I really don't like the long elevated shadows that occur when there is a background to show them.

That said, I understand what you mean by shooting in dark end zones. I think that the key here is to use a short piece of 1/4-20 thread stock to mount your flash on the bottom of the camera body with the 70-200 using an off-camera cord. This should allow you to fill the helmet properly and kill of red eye at the same time.

The other alternative is to mount the second body on it's own monopod and hang the flash on it. Flash separation from the camera is your friend. The issue with this method is that it's quite cumbersome to carry two monopods so it limits your mobility somewhat.

I regularly carry a body mounted in a flash bracket hanging upside down off of a Rapid-strap (for event photography, not football). I'll have to think about a way to do the same thing (safely) with a flash under the camera instead of above it.

I looked at the two threads listed on this post. The max preps guy has some good images, but has those shadows I don't like in many of them.

The TPF thread is interesting, but I don't like using hose clamps. Super clamps are more expensive, but they don't have sharp edges, are made of metal and much less prone to break if bumped.

Recommended flash settings are to to set the flash on manual, 1/16th power and high speed sync. It recycles quickly here and provides enough light to do the job without sucking down your batteries. It will also keep up with a short burst.

[Tom]

It is kinda funny to me that MaxPreps won't accept anything over 800 ISO but SI ran a pic I took this week at 2500 ISO.

[CallMeAl]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

It is kinda funny to me that MaxPreps won't accept anything over 800 ISO but SI ran a pic I took this week at 2500 ISO.

You're in the sports biz...is that true about MaxPreps? I thought it was kind of strange, but then again, nothing surprises me much anymore.

[Comanche]

Thanx to John and Ken for some good answers - that's what I was looking for.

Thanx to those of you who mentioned mounting a flash on my monopod using a super clamp and mini-ball head. I've done that in the past, rejected it as unnecessary and am quite happy with the shots I get without flash when the play is in the middle of the field.



Its the end zone shots I want to fix. Here is an example - not great, but the editor liked it.



Ken - I'm going to play with your idea of mounting the flash underneath the second body. You're right about not wanting another monopod to lug around! I have enough junk already.

John - Okay - I get the idea about shooting manual. I shoot manual with my non-flash shots, but Av mode with flash. If I understand you correctly, if I'm standing at the back of the end zone, I'm not going to get much more than plays that are right near the goal line.

Besides John's idea for mounting the flash under the camera (which would work okay in landscape mode, but not portrait mode), anybody use a flash bracket that wouldn't be too bulky? I carry the second body on my shoulder with an OpTech strap while I am lugging around the 300 on a monopod.

Thanx -

[John Godwin]

Doug depending on the lens and flash being used you do not necessarily have to keep the flash head parallel to the camera. You might be able to rotate the flash head to your desired positioning or even change the focal length that the flash thinks you are using. On my 580's I use 105mm when using the long lenses (300 and up) and do not have to worry about the flash head orientation. It could be used similarly for the 70-200 by setting the flash focal length to say 35mm.


"Besides John's idea for mounting the flash under the camera (which would work okay in landscape mode, but not portrait mode), anybody use a flash bracket that wouldn't be too bulky? I carry the second body on my shoulder with an OpTech strap while I am lugging around the 300 on a monopod."

[andyz]

Doug, your shots are nice. I don't care for flash shots where the player is well illuminated but everything around and behind them is black. I've largely dismissed flash at football games as well. It is something that may be worth trying, but I like using my 9.5fps when necessary.

BTW, the Max Preps guidelines I found are as follows, but there may be someting more specific elsewhere.

Photo Gallery Rules

* High-quality images only!
* Must have 25 images to post a gallery.
* Maximum of 200 images for regular season galleries.
* No red-eye images.
* No dark images.
* No grainy images.
* No oversharpened images.
* No out-of-focus images.
* No black and white images.
* No excessive noise reduction.
* No washed out images.
* Images must be shot at large-fine.
* Must crop and size all images for print processing.

[Tom]

I was told (and maybe I am mistaken) that for night games, you are required to use flash, not bump the ISO.

[slater62586]

I was told the same thing about using flash at night.. I haven't tried it yet though.