Flow posing - how to get fast, good looking poses for bride & groom

[lscottpht]

I have to agree with Stacey on this. I only watched 5 min of it or so, and knew it was not for me. My clients would hate this stuff and would not have hired me in the first place if I did posing like this. I'm very glad it works for him, but it would definitely not work with a lot of modern day brides. That's not to say it wouldn't work for any of them, but a lot of them it would not work for. Just my opinion.

[ChristopherCoy]

Originally Posted by lscottpht

I'm very glad it works for him, but it would definitely not work with a lot of modern day brides.

Are you suggesting that his techniques are antiquated?

I think that folks are looking at the facade of this, and refusing to dig deeper into it. This is only a suggestion, not the law. It is only a tool, to put in your 'tool box'. Will it work for every client? Probably not. Can it become a cookie cutter procedure that produces the same image for every couple? Sure it can. But, any good photographer should be able to look at this and see it for what it is, and make it their own. Not every couple is the same, and not every couple needs all 50 of the same poses. Add something of your own to a pose, take something out, change the setting, exploit special characteristics of your subject... MAKE IT YOUR OWN! If everyone will evaluate their portfolios, I'd be that they are already doing what Doug is they just dont notice it. He's just developed a way to streamline his work flow. I'm sure you've repeated a shot a time or two, whether its seniors, weddings, families, babies, or hell even birds. At the very least, perhaps you can get a pose or two that you haven't done before from it.

And those who are pissed because he sent a mock bride around to find out prices/packages, get with it. Its business! If he played by the book and gained his information which you freely gave out to his 'bride', good for him.... start interrogating your brides before you give out information if it bothers you that much. If he were truly being unethical, he would have publicly trashed your portfolio and/or publicly posted your information in an attempt to sabotage, and I doubt he did that. Again... ITS BUSINESS! Companies do this DAILY, and not only in the photography business. Ever heard of 'Secret Shoppers?' Why do you think when Nikon builds a new camera, Canon isn't far behind with a comparable model, and vica versa. ITS BUSINESS!

[lscottpht]

I'm suggesting that a lot of today's brides do not want a bunch of posed photos, at least not the ones that I've run across. They come to me because a lot of my images do not seem posed, even my engagement/bridal sessions. They have told me this time and time again. My brides get frustrated having to do the posed family shots after the wedding. They don't like them and only do them because they know they have to.

[ed2111]

Great tips from that video. That reminded me of some of the techniques Hanson Fong teaches. I had the pleasure to attend a workshop with HF a few years ago through PPA.

As far as I'm concerned, those are tools that can be used in some circumstance, can be modified, or simply inspire you to add/update your own style of posing. One doesn't have to snap the fingers or pose for 40 shots continuously.
I take those techniques and simply work that into the suggestions kindly given to the couple during the wedding.

Now, if only I was booked for a wedding?...

Thanks for sharing the link.

[Doug Gordon]

Just came across this and thanks for the nice words and not so nice words. I thought I would clarify some things said so there is no misunderstanding. First and foremost I take no offense to anything anyone said. I appreciate it. it will make me better and also gives me a reason to keep growing.
#1 I did open a franchise studio in Texas as I did other areas in the US. I did not send a bride or anyone else for that matter into any studio for prices. What I was explaining, was that the worst mistake we can make as a studio is to make our prices visible to the public where they judge us only on our prices. I made the point that I was able to get an idea of any marketplace by going on the web and downloading prices as a bride would or attending a bridal show and picking this info up. Also I a firm believer it is not a crime or sleazy to get this info from photographers. i would hand this info to any photographer who asked me. However I don't want it out where the brides could just judge me based on prices. This is not bad business, it is educated business to know what your peers or competition is doing. What I said that day and will continue to say as long as I am fortunate enough to be a presenter is prices need to be guarded and we need to make our business about the work and more importantly remember this industry was built on personal relationships.
#2 The finger snapping, (sorry) I know it seems degrading. It isn't meant that way, I learned at young age doing portraits sound attracts attention, a lot of times when people are posing, they drone out. So the snap makes them locate the hand where I want there eyes. Some photographers have them look at them out the lens while holding the shutter. i don't do it this way because I don't believe I can take the best image possible unless my eye is in the camera.
#3 Flow Posing. To some it may seem cookie cutter. However I want you to look it this way. My goal as a shooter and studio owner is to be able to guarantee the studio a consistent, story/ product. When a client comes in and views my portfolio, website, etc. They expect to have that . I have never had a client come in and say, I love your website, your albums etc. Can you do me a favor and make sure my images look nothing like that. I assure you if they book you, they want what you showed them. If you have ever seen me speak or seen my website you know , flow posing changes according to the subject, the location, the body size and more importantly what sells.

I know what I do isn't for everyone and that is ok. My only goal is to please my clients whether it is our brides or my students. I am commonly asked why my studio is successful, why it works. It is simple I have the best staff in the world. They have one common belief. They have one goal and more importantly they all shoot the same way. Top to bottom good business is about consistency and more importantly great relationships. thanks for the spirited debate and more important opening my eyes to somethings I say that may offend. It is never intended that way
Best Wishes
Doug

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by ThiNguyen

It is a good video. Learn what you can and ignore the rest.

+1 on that!

- Wil

[marysledd]

Thank you for the candor and clarification. Keep up the good work and amen to good staff being the key to having a studio that makes clients happy.

Originally Posted by Doug Gordon

Just came across this and thanks for the nice words and not so nice words. I thought I would clarify some things said so there is no misunderstanding. First and foremost I take no offense to anything anyone said. I appreciate it. it will make me better and also gives me a reason to keep growing.
#1 I did open a franchise studio in Texas as I did other areas in the US. I did not send a bride or anyone else for that matter into any studio for prices. What I was explaining, was that the worst mistake we can make as a studio is to make our prices visible to the public where they judge us only on our prices. I made the point that I was able to get an idea of any marketplace by going on the web and downloading prices as a bride would or attending a bridal show and picking this info up. Also I a firm believer it is not a crime or sleazy to get this info from photographers. i would hand this info to any photographer who asked me. However I don't want it out where the brides could just judge me based on prices. This is not bad business, it is educated business to know what your peers or competition is doing. What I said that day and will continue to say as long as I am fortunate enough to be a presenter is prices need to be guarded and we need to make our business about the work and more importantly remember this industry was built on personal relationships.
#2 The finger snapping, (sorry) I know it seems degrading. It isn't meant that way, I learned at young age doing portraits sound attracts attention, a lot of times when people are posing, they drone out. So the snap makes them locate the hand where I want there eyes. Some photographers have them look at them out the lens while holding the shutter. i don't do it this way because I don't believe I can take the best image possible unless my eye is in the camera.
#3 Flow Posing. To some it may seem cookie cutter. However I want you to look it this way. My goal as a shooter and studio owner is to be able to guarantee the studio a consistent, story/ product. When a client comes in and views my portfolio, website, etc. They expect to have that . I have never had a client come in and say, I love your website, your albums etc. Can you do me a favor and make sure my images look nothing like that. I assure you if they book you, they want what you showed them. If you have ever seen me speak or seen my website you know , flow posing changes according to the subject, the location, the body size and more importantly what sells.

I know what I do isn't for everyone and that is ok. My only goal is to please my clients whether it is our brides or my students. I am commonly asked why my studio is successful, why it works. It is simple I have the best staff in the world. They have one common belief. They have one goal and more importantly they all shoot the same way. Top to bottom good business is about consistency and more importantly great relationships. thanks for the spirited debate and more important opening my eyes to somethings I say that may offend. It is never intended that way
Best Wishes
Doug

[Ernst-Ulrich Schafer]

Any time I can learn from Doug, Monte, or anyone else I'll gladly take it.

[Jaggz]

Whoa - just re-ran across this thread...how awesome is it that Doug himself came by to make a response! Thanks Doug for your great words and for making the video - like Ernst mentioned above, anytime I can learn - I'm gonna soak it up! It may not be for everyone - but everyone should be able to learn something from it.

[Ernst-Ulrich Schafer]

If your not learning the fundmentals of posing and lighting your truly missing the boat.
Doug and many others were greatly influenced by Monte Zucker and so was I. I'm very thankful that I had the opportunity to take classes with the both of them. I love the classical approach I take towards my portrait work, looking for a timeless image, not the newest fad, action of the day. At the same time I wanting to find my art, style/fashion comes into play and just having a ton of fun. But at the same time all that I've learned allows me to see for myself as a photographer/artist.

Best regards, Ernst