Second shooter equipment question

[Phisch]

Todd, the way the cameras render color is difference enough to some people. There are ways to work around that but when you have hundreds and hundreds of slides from one wedding alone it could get tedious and that might account for the preferences. Even within Canon lenses there are differences (there's a reason why L glass is expensive, etc.). There are a lot of pros who use Nikon for weddings, so I think it's a matter of picking a camp and sticking with it.

It's not always the gear, although it's arguable that you need pro gear of course, but the person behind the camera that matters more.

I think the question that's more important (because good gear should go without saying) should be does your vision match the main photographer's?

just my 2 cents. :)

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by todd_a

So, is this a more universally accepted truth among photogs that shoot people? That Nikon is off on the skin tones and Canon is the way to go?

This is somewhat troubling considering my investment at this point.

Don't stress. Canon people think Canon is the only camera made, and everything else has some sort of issue, and Nikon people think Canon should stick to Point & Shoot's which is where they (Canon) excels. The only thing I see is that Canon tends to shoot much less saturated in camera than the Nikon, but I would not make a broad sweeping statement that Nikon is off on skin tones. This topic can generate it's own 20 page thread so I will move on.

Originally Posted by pbyd

Call me old or call me in business, but I have part-time employees that are my second and third shooters and I furnish the cameras, lenses and flash equipment that they use, when I have had to have more that than three shooters at an event I furnish their equipment also, I want to know my client is getting what they are paying for. I would never be able to book an event and not know who was shooting second or third for me before I booked. This may seem a strange way to do business but I do not have complaints and that isn’t to bad after over 41 years of doing wedding and event photography. In the past years when I ordered a new camera body, four bodies were ordered each time, now as I am booking less events I have cut down to a smaller number of cameras. Yes, it does cost me a lot to keep up to date with equipment when I must equip 3 or more photographers, but it can be done if you charge a professional price for what you do.
Wayne
Photography by Design

I do not call this old, or "in business". I think it is great that you provide all the equipment, but that does not mean that it is an efficient business model, nor does that mean that I do not know who will be second shooting for me when I book the wedding (now assisting is a different story, but they do not shoot). It's called "tools for the trade". Construction companies do not hand out a tool belt, tape measure and hammer to a framer they hire! It is expected that when you start work, you have the basic foundation of equipment that is needed to do the job. They will provide the wood they use, and the nails, and maybe even the large onsite tools like the chop saw etc. I have my shooters use my lights and stands, modifiers, etc as needed, but the individual camera, flash, and lenses are their "tools for the trade". It is the minimum needed to function in the position they are hired for, and they are expected to have the minimum "standard" of glass, and camera to be able to do it right. I personally do not care what type of camera brand they shoot with, so long as they know how to use the gear to it's potential, and it meets the minimum I have established.

Wayne, I am not knocking your model, I am just stating that this would not work for everyone. As far as not knowing who the second shooter is? I agree 100%, I would not bring an untried shooter to an event where the client paid for, and expected 2 professional shooters.

W

[todd_a]

Well, at this point in my "career" in photography... where I am attempting to learn wedding photography..... and the best and most desired method to learn is to assist and second shoot with an established pro.... I am now battling with the fact that it appears to me from initial research on here that a mojority of the wedding photogs are using Canon Equipment.

This appears to limit my ability to gain experience and learn in the traditionally accepted best possible way. Major downer in my mind because I have invested a lot of time and money into high end professional equipment specifically to get into wedding photography.

I guess if it was easy, everyone would be doing it, right?

[Rson]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Don't stress. Canon people think Canon is the only camera made, and everything else has some sort of issue, and Nikon people think Canon should stick to Point & Shoot's which is where they (Canon) excels. The only thing I see is that Canon tends to shoot much less saturated in camera than the Nikon, but I would not make a broad sweeping statement that Nikon is off on skin tones. This topic can generate it's own 20 page thread so I will move on.





I do not call this old, or "in business". I think it is great that you provide all the equipment, but that does not mean that it is an efficient business model, nor does that mean that I do not know who will be second shooting for me when I book the wedding (now assisting is a different story, but they do not shoot). It's called "tools for the trade". Construction companies do not hand out a tool belt, tape measure and hammer to a framer they hire! It is expected that when you start work, you have the basic foundation of equipment that is needed to do the job. They will provide the wood they use, and the nails, and maybe even the large onsite tools like the chop saw etc. I have my shooters use my lights and stands, modifiers, etc as needed, but the individual camera, flash, and lenses are their "tools for the trade". It is the minimum needed to function in the position they are hired for, and they are expected to have the minimum "standard" of glass, and camera to be able to do it right. I personally do not care what type of camera brand they shoot with, so long as they know how to use the gear to it's potential, and it meets the minimum I have established.

Wayne, I am not knocking your model, I am just stating that this would not work for everyone. As far as not knowing who the second shooter is? I agree 100%, I would not bring an untried shooter to an event where the client paid for, and expected 2 professional shooters.

W

+1

It is all about the user and not the camera assuming the owned camera's are pro level. When a print is on the wall no one says "wow, I am glad he used a d3 instead of a 5d" or "I wonder if he shot using RAW instead of JPG"

[MicWayWal]

Todd,

Not only do I prefer my second to shoot with the same equipment, but I require them to set up the camera with the same style as mine. This produces a more consistent file that is easier to color correct, will look similar to my files, and produces a more consistent product for my client. But for aome photographers I have made exceptions.

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by WarrenG

Don't stress. Canon people think Canon is the only camera made, and everything else has some sort of issue, and Nikon people think Canon should stick to Point & Shoot's which is where they (Canon) excels. The only thing I see is that Canon tends to shoot much less saturated in camera than the Nikon, but I would not make a broad sweeping statement that Nikon is off on skin tones. This topic can generate it's own 20 page thread so I will move on.

Funny... I do have a Canon SD550 that I have had for about 6 - 7 years. It is an awesome little camera! I can't part with it, and wouldn't want to - it works great and I am very familiar with it and all its settings and menus. And even though now I shoot with Nikon for my "big cameras", if I was to get another small camera to replace this one, I would go back with Canon for that again because even though the new ones are generations newer, I bet the controls are similar and I could grab one and go and shoot with it easily.

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by MicWayWal

Todd,

Not only do I prefer my second to shoot with the same equipment, but I require them to set up the camera with the same style as mine. This produces a more consistent file that is easier to color correct, will look similar to my files, and produces a more consistent product for my client. But for aome photographers I have made exceptions.

I can definitely understand wanting the original files to look as much the same as possible for editing and consistency purposes, and that using the same brand will mostly allow identical settings to be made. You would think that you could get close in the settings with the different brands, but I have not tried that so I don't speak from experience there at all.

Hopefully I can end up being one of those exceptions one day in what appears to be a majority of Canon wedding photogs.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by MicWayWal

Todd,

Not only do I prefer my second to shoot with the same equipment, but I require them to set up the camera with the same style as mine. This produces a more consistent file that is easier to color correct, will look similar to my files, and produces a more consistent product for my client. But for aome photographers I have made exceptions.

Maybe I am making more work for myself? I tend to process all the "nikon images" and then all the "canon images" for example, as this method allows me to sync much easier. The whole process of color and saturation is so fast in lightroom it is almost a non-issue to me.

[Rson]

If all camera's shoot in the P mode or green box mode then they will all be synced....at least that is what I do.

:)

[alamoshutterbug]

You can get pretty far with a simple import preset to attenuate or boost the red/green values between the two big brands. So it's not impossible to have two brands, it's just not preferred as it creates a bit more work in post.

I wouldn't fret about your choice in brand at this point. Just focus on making killer images and wow your potential primaries with that. Color variance issues can be easily overlooked if they see value in your work. I typically use shooters that use the same set-up as me but I do use one Nikon shooter when I can whose work rocks and I don't mind the extra work syncing the brands in post.

[jerrybsmith]

I've had second shooters with Nikon equipment while mine is Canon. There was a suttle shift to blue on the Nikon images compared to what I was getting with Canon which meant I had to color adjust them seperately in processing. No other substantial differences if equipment quality is equal that I could see. I also have experience with most Canon cameras so I feel confident in suggesting camera settings and how to adjust them that I don't have with Nikon.

[ATPhotography]

Originally Posted by todd_a

So, is this a more universally accepted truth among photogs that shoot people? That Nikon is off on the skin tones and Canon is the way to go?

This is somewhat troubling considering my investment at this point.

I wasn't trying to state which system is better then which (like WarrenG stated, this issue could be it's own 20 page thread), just that they are slightly different :P

Like others have mentioned above, I wouldn't worry which camera system you shoot with, but focus on doing good work, once you have that people will recognize it and will let you tag along/2nd shoot because you know what you're doing.

Besides, there's a lot of great Nikon wedding photographers around here that I would like to tag along!

[DanielSeth]

This skin tone discussion is absolute rubbish. There's a thing called white balance and if you'd rather complain about having to spend a few seconds in post batch processing your images (which you'll have to do regardless of camera brand) rather than hiring someone based on their skills then you are limiting not only yourself but also your colleagues.

Todd, the differences between Nikon and Canon and Sony are virtually non-existent and my advice to you is to stay far away from anyone who claims the contrary. These are not the type of people you'll want to learn from. Work with a photographer who cares about the art of the photograph, not the inconsequential amount of money they've spent on their toys. Besides, everything Canon is cheaper than Nikon so there's nothing really to brag about...

Personally, I care zero percent what my 2nd shooter is using as long as their images look great and as long as they have good client skills. Shoot well, be nice to people, have a good attitude and you'll go far.

[KdLaneJr]

There are two tools that render the difference between cameras not only moot, but non-existent as far as the image files are concerned.

The first is setting a custom white balance using the same target. Pick one, stick with it. I prefer Ed Pierce's calibration target, because it enables you to tune your manual settings so you preserve the detail in whites and blacks.

The second is the xRite Passport Colorchecker. Shoot this with each body after you set your CWB, build a calibration profile and sync it across all the images shot under the same light and you won't ever see a color difference between cameras (unless you're shooting sports under bad lighting).