Second shooter equipment question

[todd_a]

It's monday again, and I thought about some of this over the weekend when I was not by a computer to ask opinions, so here goes....

I have seen in several requests for second shooters where the primary either prefers or in some cases requires that the secondary shoot with the same brand equipment as they do. "Sorry Nikon shooters, Canon only." or "Nikon only this time." But the reason is never explained and it isn't obvious to me. And if I am thinking it, then surely someone else is too somewhere.

All I could come up with is this:
- The primary might want the second to shoot with a certain lens that they might not have such as a faster lens than the second might own.
- Maybe the primary doesn't know the other brand well enough to be able to help the second with camera settings?
- Maybe the primary will want the raw images and uses a brand specific initial program that doesn't recognize the other brand files?
- I guess it could be that the primary might really hate the other brand for some reason. lol

If you are being paid to shoot as a second, I would think that you would at least understand your own equipment well enough to be able to set it up as per instructions by the primary without them having to go through your settings for you. Now maybe a third shooter or a tag-along I could understand not being as knowledgable about their equipment. Or maybe my idea of a second is someone with more knowledge/experience with the equipment than is the case in reality? Could be that in the fast pace of a wedding the primary wants to just be able to either say or do it quickly and is concerned about the possible language barrier between the brands.

If it is the lens deal, then why not request someone with the same brand unless you own (or are willing to rent) fast lenses that would cover the needed focal length range? So that one doesn't really make sense.

I can't really see it being the software thing. I mean Lightroom will open both major brand's files. But it could be that the primary is using something else that will not, I guess.

So, basically, I was just curious as to why the brand specific requirement. Can some of the primaries explain? Or even seconds that have encountered this that might be able to shed some insight?

[groovyone]

I'd guess it is for gear compatibility and easier editing...maybe. I shoot Sony, so I think most people would be afraid to have me as their second, despite having the gear to fully support it myself.

It is a question I have often pondered as well.

[Tom]

1. Consistency: the files look a little different coming out of the different cameras, and I like a pretty consistent take from all my files.
2. Compatibility: Most seconds don't have backup gear or might not have all the best gear. I would rather my second shoot with my 24-105L or 24-70L than with a Sigma 24-70.
3. Backups: If something fails, there is a larger pool of backups.

I usually prefer Canon, but would hire a Nikon person if their gear was good and their work was good.

That said, I've used one Nikon person ever and it was the worst second shooting experience of my life. The person, not the equipment. She didn't bring all the equipment she told me she had, and I couldn't make her use my gear. Extremely stressful. I think I got 30 usable shots from her in 5 hours. She was booked for 8 hours, but I sent her home, which was the best decision I had made that day.

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by groovyone

I'd guess it is for gear compatibility and easier editing...maybe. I shoot Sony, so I think most people would be afraid to have me as their second, despite having the gear to fully support it myself.

It is a question I have often pondered as well.

Not mainstream like the "big two" but I would think that if the images were good and yuo could produce files that the primary could redily edit in the format they needed and you knew your equipment, that it wouldn't be a huge issue.

[groovyone]

Originally Posted by todd_a

Not mainstream like the "big two" but I would think that if the images were good and yuo could produce files that the primary could redily edit in the format they needed and you knew your equipment, that it wouldn't be a huge issue.

I like to think it is because the awesome 24MP files might make them feel bad. hehe

[groovyone]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

1. Consistency: the files look a little different coming out of the different cameras, and I like a pretty consistent take from all my files.
2. Compatibility: Most seconds don't have backup gear or might not have all the best gear. I would rather my second shoot with my 24-105L or 24-70L than with a Sigma 24-70.
3. Backups: If something fails, there is a larger pool of backups.

About what I figured. The two weddings I second/third shot were with other Sony shooters as the main. Kind of funny when we had 3 A900s all with 70-200Gs on them at one point.

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

1. Consistency: the files look a little different coming out of the different cameras, and I like a pretty consistent take from all my files.
2. Compatibility: Most seconds don't have backup gear or might not have all the best gear. I would rather my second shoot with my 24-105L or 24-70L than with a Sigma 24-70.
3. Backups: If something fails, there is a larger pool of backups.

I usually prefer Canon, but would hire a Nikon person if their gear was good and their work was good.

That said, I've used one Nikon person ever and it was the worst second shooting experience of my life. The person, not the equipment. She didn't bring all the equipment she told me she had, and I couldn't make her use my gear. Extremely stressful. I think I got 30 usable shots from her in 5 hours. She was booked for 8 hours, but I sent her home, which was the best decision I had made that day.

How do you mean the files look different? I mean, I have seen different cameras of the same brand produce different results in a comparison like between the Nikon D300 (crop frame), D700 and D3 - aside from the obvious differences because the 300 was a crop frame. Slight color differences when supposedly set the same. Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?

I guess it would be optimum in that case to use one model of one brand for the primary and backup, and have the second use the same camera model too. I can see that for super consistency.

And I didn't think about the other lens brand options that would still be f/2.8. I was assuming all the same matching brand in my head.


Hummmm... I had been contemplating getting a D700 for a backup, because it has the same sensor (supposedly) as the D3 and both are full frame, but I did see a slight difference in the tests I looked at. Might be something to consider that I didn't think about before. See, thats why this board rocks - makes me start thinking about the little things I've overlooked (along with the big things, lol).

[Tom]

I don't think the consistency thing I am talking about would be seen by a customer. I prefer the way the Canon FF cameras reproduce skin tones to Nikon.

My main second shooter and I use 4 different cameras: 5D classic, 5D Mark II, 7D and 1Ds Mark III. We both only use primes except for the rare circumstances that require a 70-200.

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by groovyone

I like to think it is because the awesome 24MP files might make them feel bad. hehe

Yeah, I can't touch that! Seems like it could be a plus if they might want to blow up some supa-huge prints. Forget a nice 8x10, go with a WALL PRINT - 8 foot by 10 foot!

I wonder how that camera compares to the others for low light.

[todd_a]

Originally Posted by Thomas Campbell

I don't think the consistency thing I am talking about would be seen by a customer. I prefer the way the Canon FF cameras reproduce skin tones to Nikon.

My main second shooter and I use 4 different cameras: 5D classic, 5D Mark II, 7D and 1Ds Mark III. We both only use primes except for the rare circumstances that require a 70-200.

And all the different models produce consistent skin tones?

Do y'all carry a pair of cameras with a longer and shorter prime, or swap lenses a lot?

[Tom]

Generally shoot with a 24 or 35 on one and a 85 or 135 on the other. All depends on the situation. Don't have to change a whole lot.

[pbyd]

Call me old or call me in business, but I have part-time employees that are my second and third shooters and I furnish the cameras, lenses and flash equipment that they use, when I have had to have more that than three shooters at an event I furnish their equipment also, I want to know my client is getting what they are paying for. I would never be able to book an event and not know who was shooting second or third for me before I booked. This may seem a strange way to do business but I do not have complaints and that isn’t to bad after over 41 years of doing wedding and event photography. In the past years when I ordered a new camera body, four bodies were ordered each time, now as I am booking less events I have cut down to a smaller number of cameras. Yes, it does cost me a lot to keep up to date with equipment when I must equip 3 or more photographers, but it can be done if you charge a professional price for what you do.
Wayne
Photography by Design

[FireHeart Photography]

Canon has a color profile that they use with all of DSLR's above the rebel - Nikon has the same - these profiles are not the same nor near the same - and when editing it is easier if you are using the same color profile. that is the down and dirty of it for me. I will always share my lenses with my shooter and my bodies too if needed - I have 5 bodies so I can give my second a back up with one of my bodies as I do not require them to have back up equipment. If they are canon shooter they can adapt very quickly to my equipment.

[ATPhotography]

I agree with Thomas, skin tones are slightly different between Canon and Nikon. I think Nikon is more yellowish? Cheetahstand actually has a pink and silver reflector designed towards the slightly yellower skin tone for Nikons.

[todd_a]

So, is this a more universally accepted truth among photogs that shoot people? That Nikon is off on the skin tones and Canon is the way to go?

This is somewhat troubling considering my investment at this point.