Food at Weddings, Feed the Photographers?

[XtremePhoto]

MOD NOTE: THIS TOPIC IS AN OFFSHOOT OF Discussion: Why so quick to jump into a Wedding?

Originally Posted by StevenGWebb

That wasn't flippant at all. I've seen those same things myself. "Be sure to have fun" is the one that sticks me most. Doesn't anyone work anymore?

So true, I am not a "photographer" but one that stuck with me is: too many of the photographers we looked at for our daughter's wedding had SPECIFIC clauses in their contracts about feeding them at the wedding. WTF? They aren't guests. I am paying them to work. How many full time professional jobs do you know that pay for your lunch every time you have to work? NONE. Needless to say, the one we did hire didn't have that in their contract and wouldn't even take a plate when the caterer asked. That is professional.

-G-

[lscottpht]

Originally Posted by XtremePhoto

So true, I am not a "photographer" but one that stuck with me is: too many of the photographers we looked at for our daughter's wedding had SPECIFIC clauses in their contracts about feeding them at the wedding. WTF? They aren't guests. I am paying them to work. How many full time professional jobs do you know that pay for your lunch every time you have to work? NONE. Needless to say, the one we did hire didn't have that in their contract and wouldn't even take a plate when the caterer asked. That is professional.

-G-

Umm, wow, you don't want to feed the people that are working their butts off for 8-12 hrs for you? That's fine, then at least I hope you let them take time off to go run out and get something to eat. I'm surprised you based hiring someone on that fact. Glad my clients don't have a problem feeding me. Luckily, I am able to pick and choose my clients; so, I am actually interviewing them as much as they are me. The clients I choose treat me as a friend and not hired help. Oh, and I hardly think I'm not professional b/c I eat at weddings.

[jerrybsmith]

I agree with lscottpht 100%. While not written in our contract that we must be fed, I make a point of bringing it up during their consultation. If they have a problem with it, I politely let them know that we need to take a 30-60 minute break to leave the venue and find a drive through to eat and that they need to schedule that into the activities so no pictures are missed. That usually brings them to their senses. 99% of the time they insist we eat which usually happens while standing up and on the go.

[XtremePhoto]

Originally Posted by lscottpht

Umm, wow, you don't want to feed the people that are working their butts off for 8-12 hrs for you? That's fine, then at least I hope you let them take time off to go run out and get something to eat. I'm surprised you based hiring someone on that fact. Glad my clients don't have a problem feeding me. Luckily, I am able to pick and choose my clients; so, I am actually interviewing them as much as they are me. The clients I choose treat me as a friend and not hired help. Oh, and I hardly think I'm not professional b/c I eat at weddings.

8-12 hours? The photographers were only there for the Ceremony and Reception and that was 6 hours. I didn't hire the photographer based on that, but I find it tacky that I should have to feed them. They aren't guests. (When I asked, the photographer said that he fed his crew before they arrived and they were able to live through 6-8 hours of work without having to eat.) I don't think that is unreasonable at all. I still think it is tacky and not professional that you would eat at a wedding when you are getting paid to work. I am glad that I found a professional that has sense and was able to provide meals for the crew and perform the duties without interruption (and very nicely too.) If you shoot 8-12 hours at a wedding, I would hate to see that bill. I know I am still hurting from 6 hours of photography and the rests of it that went with the whole wedding.

-G-

[auddii]

Originally Posted by XtremePhoto

So true, I am not a "photographer" but one that stuck with me is: too many of the photographers we looked at for our daughter's wedding had SPECIFIC clauses in their contracts about feeding them at the wedding. WTF? They aren't guests. I am paying them to work. How many full time professional jobs do you know that pay for your lunch every time you have to work? NONE. Needless to say, the one we did hire didn't have that in their contract and wouldn't even take a plate when the caterer asked. That is professional.

-G-

I'm only a lowly assistant, and I've only been doing this for a year, but personally I find this ridiculous. I show up "late" in the afternoon - I miss the hair/makeup and getting dressed. I usually work at least 8 hours, and the photographer I think has our meals included in her contract, and if not, I know she discusses it at consultations.

Most people who work a "normal" job get an unpaid lunch break. However, such a break really doesn't exist during weddings. We don't take photos of people eating, so there is a small break while the bride and groom are eating. However, they often get up an greet guests during dinner, and those are often great opportunities for photos. It's easy to grab a bite, go take some photos, then come back for another bite. Can't do that if I'm down the street at a McDonalds.

Two weddings ago, we were told that our dinner would be prepared after the guests were served - awesome, our dinner would be ready right when we need to be working full time - cake cutting, toasts, and dancing. We ended up not being served at all, and it was a very long night. I am hypoglycemic, so my blood sugar can drop suddenly - thankfully I was able to grab a piece of wedding cake.

You might find it tacky, but hopefully you won't need to be paying for another wedding soon so it won't be a problem for you. I may be getting paid, but that doesn't mean that the receipt of money means that I won't get hungry for 10 hours.

[lscottpht]

Well, first, I could understand if it was only 6 hrs, but second, as much as you find it tacky that I eat, I find it tacky that you think so little of your "hired help" not to feed them. It is really difficult for us to go off somewhere and eat, like Audrey said. There are always things happening. And I'm sorry, but yes, I do require food when I'm working 8 hrs, especially during an outside wedding where I'm sweating to death and losing energy. My clients treat me well, and I treat them well. Luckily, my clients value me and my work and don't just think of me as hired help. Also, you can ask any of my many brides if they think of me as unprofessional. They rave about me constantly. I am hardly non professional.

[Angelo]

Another way to look at this is that the photographer may have to travel an hour or maybe more, and besides most of them come earlier than scheduled as a courtesy to the b&g.
Not only that but they usually stay longer if necessary when the wedding goes into overtime. It's nice to do nice things...

[HotHolly]

Its considered a courtesy to feed your hired help at weddings. Its part of the polite wedding etiquette. While lots of stuff is changing with etiquette, that hasn't. Owned a bridal shop for too long. Staff is supposed to get fed, and tipped (if they are not the owner).

My contribution - I was up to my eyeballs in brides 24/7 b/t wedding photography and bridal shop. If you remember nothing else, remember this: Brides are crazy. Between family hoopla, hormones, emotions, and the impossible task of acquiring perfection - brides are just nuts. A president of the TPPA was sued b/c a brides tiara was placed on her head crooked by her hair stylist. If you are like, wth? Yeah, it was a total wth. She shoulda went after the stylist. Anyway, new photogs think it wont happen to them. Poor suckers. Everyone I know has had a crazy bride threaten to sue/ sued at some point. If you have no contract, no insurance, didnt know what you were doing, and werent prepared (whether they are friends, family, or inmates) you'll quickly notice how stressful it is to be a wedding. imho, I think you should EXPECT to get sued - even if u rock. even if u r the best. b/c...say it with me...brides are nuts.

[LauraM]

So when I'm photographing a wedding from 3PM until Midnight, you would think it is unprofessional of me to eat? lol Most brides now want coverage of them getting ready and photos of the bridal party start before the wedding... I don't know about you, but I can't go from 3-Midnight, working my butt off without some sort of food. It's not unprofessional it's human. I don't expect clients to pay for my dinner, but if I'm covering more than 6 hours, then it will be brought up. I've only had to bring food up a couple of times when talking about the hours of coverage they want and scheduling of the events, the clients have almost always said, "And we're going to feed you well! It's going to be so good!" or something to that effect.

Maybe before calling people out as professional, you should see what the norm is! :)

As for the topic at hand... I think people jump in quickly because they don't know what they're getting into. Weddings have a lot of allure for a romantic, people who love details, etc. Weddings are a huge part of people's lives and I think part of being a photographer is a love for details, documenting and expression. A wedding has all of those things so people see it as something that could be very enjoyable and there is a lot of money that can be made. Unfortunately weddings are also extremely challenging, not for the faint of heart... and to be a wedding photographer, you also have to be a kick a-- marketer, business person, accountant, customer service person, etc. If you don't have a good bit of those or a bottomless bank account to hire people to do it for you... you wont make it. Plus, most people who jump into it don't factor in taxes and costs and end up broke anyway. Haha! That is why there is such a huge turnover of wedding photographers each year! Only the strong survive. ;o)

[The Loft Studios]

Regarding eating at Weddings..... I don't think Glenn has a problem with the photographers eating, he has an issue with that he has to "pay" for them to eat, and I agree. Does you "day job" pay for your food, they'll allow for a lunch period for you to eat, but they don't pay for it (your food)..... I bring my own food to Weddings that I shoot (snacks, cold-cut sandwiches, drinks, etc...) If asked to eat, which has happened at EVERY Wedding I've ever shot, I have no problem doing so, and typically do so in about 10 minutes..... then back to the grinding stone, lol.

[dracula02]

Albeit, it may not state that I require a meal in my contract, it's something that I bring up in their consultation as well. Whether I take them up on it or not during a 8-10 day of shooting is up to me and the time that I have to cover a wedding. Regardless of whether or not they want to feed me, most caterer's know that the vendors need sustenance to work to their peak performance and offer plates to other vendors if there's enough left over and enough time for the vendor to grab (literally) a quick bite. I can probably time myself to eating a full plate of food in under 5 min. I haven't had a bride yet that has had a problem with this yet.

I also explain that I will not be eating with the guests (personal preference), but in a separate room because I don't want guests with opinions like Glenn staring at me wondering why I'm not working when I'm being paid to take pictures. Ask me if I use the bathroom in 8-10 hours... 9 weddings out of 10 I don't. Not because I don't want to (although I really don't), but because I get so dehydrated that I don't need to. My body is literally hurting from head to toe by the end of the night from carrying 20-30lbs of equipment, and I think that the least that could be provided for the day of is a meal, maybe something to drink. C'mon, I've still got to cull and edit the wedding afterwards (in addition to the 3-4 other weddings in the que) over the next 2-4 weeks, just to make, maybe $500 after taxes and expenses and then have someone tell me that I was unprofessional because I ate a plate of food at their daughter's event.

Besides the wedding coordinator, what other vendor works 8+hours per event? If the food is really that big of a deal that you had to pay for a vendor to eat at a function you paid for them to work, consider it gratuity.

I'm off my soap box.

[STP Images]

Originally Posted by XtremePhoto

How many full time professional jobs do you know that pay for your lunch every time you have to work? NONE.

Prior to becoming a full time photographer, I was General Manager of several large IT firms for roughly 15 years. I was also a minority owner in one of those businesses and money spent was essentially coming directly out of MY pocket. I understand P&L statements and EBITDA intimately.

All of my direct employees, which numbered into the 100's, were salaried employees. We didn't pay for their lunch when they were in the office working. However, when they traveled out of the office to conduct business, we paid for their meals as they were working for the benefit of the company. We did this through either a per diem (Google it) or via reimbursement through an expense report.

You can equate this policy the same way to photography. If a photographer is working in his/her studio (or home studio), I don't expect the employer (client) to pay for meals. However, if the photographer travels to a site to shoot a wedding, he/she is traveling for the benefit of the employer (client) outside of the normal confines of their typical work environment for a full 8 hour work day or longer. Picking up the meal tab for the photographer who is expected to conduct hours of stressful work with high expectations of performance outside of office (studio) confines is a small price to pay to assure good results - no one works well hungry. Outside of this business reason, it is simple common and human courtesy.

You might not like the fact that a client would pay for a meal for their photographer. This is your opinion and you have every right to that opinion and to express it here. However, your statement that NO full time professional organization pays for meals for its employees is not only blindly false, it is short-sighted.

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by XtremePhoto

So true, I am not a "photographer" but one that stuck with me is: too many of the photographers we looked at for our daughter's wedding had SPECIFIC clauses in their contracts about feeding them at the wedding. WTF? They aren't guests. I am paying them to work. How many full time professional jobs do you know that pay for your lunch every time you have to work? NONE. Needless to say, the one we did hire didn't have that in their contract and wouldn't even take a plate when the caterer asked. That is professional.

-G-

The nerve of those photographers! Dang, you know what else chaps my tripod? When wedding photographers break away to go to the restroom. Heck, I am paying them to take photos, not go to the bathroom. Personally, I could care less if there are labor laws that affect how a photographer pays the people who work with / for him or her, and regulate how they provide their meal breaks (I mean come on, the law says they do not HAVE to feed them)! Reminds me of when the doctors were doing a 10 hour surgery on my father at the hospital to remove some tumors...I was ticked off something fierce when the doctors had to take a break. I mean WTF doc.... I am paying you for this, and breaks are a sight tacky dont ya think?

If I am shooting a 6 hour event, no issue on the meal... but if we are shooting a "normal wedding" which is about 8-10 hours, we are going to eat. I am not asking to sit down with the guests, throw back a few cocktails, and nibble on the 3 course meal. We are going to eat, finish, and then be ready to shoot when the guests are wrapping up. I do not know about others, but most clients I work with do not want a bunch of photos of people stuffing their faces anyway. Meal time is tinker time (rings, flowers, artistic shots, etc).

If a client is too cheap to pay for an extra 2 plates, they are not the kind of client that I would want to work with anyway.

W

[LauraM]

Hah! I totally forgot that there are labor laws in my response. Good thinking, Warren! lol I think the law is if you're working more than 4 hours, you get a break.

And like others have said... I go into another room/closet/outside... take like 4 bites... and chug a tiny plastic cup of water and get back in the game. The bathroom is another story. I have gone to the bathroom while shooting one wedding. I was there for 9 hours and made the dumb mistake of drinking a 32 ounce cup of water before the wedding because I knew how dehydrated I would get when it was 100 degrees out that day... I had the break after the getting ready and wedding party pictures but before the ceremony. I still had to pee SO BAD after the wedding... as soon as the couple was in the limo, I took off in a sprint for the bathroom. lol I just hung my camera on the purse hook on the back of the door.

This is still relevant to the original topic as well, because it shows that people have no idea what they're getting into when they decide to do weddings. lol

[WarrenG]

Originally Posted by LauraM

Hah! I totally forgot that there are labor laws in my response. Good thinking, Warren! lol I think the law is if you're working more than 4 hours, you get a break.

Actually, Texas nor the Feds "require" a company to provide meals or breaks, however, if a company does offer them, then they (Texas and Feds) both regulate how the company provides them. For example, if we offer a lunch break as part of our benefits package, it has to be regulated, and is based on the number of hours worked, etc. Likewise, and independent contractor could state that part of their agreement is a meal break, in which case it would be a requirement.

I just thought the point might be applicable in the discussion

My apologies to the OP for straying so far from the original topic.

W