How to be a recommended photographer

[ndsimm]

I have seen several threads and have posted a few of my own about either 2nd shooter opportunities and even job referrals. With that in mind, I thought I would post some criteria needed in order to get "the job". These are my opinions so feel free to add your own and I wll edit and add as I think of more.... I know this year will be busy for me with both weddings and events so I will be asking for help often...

1. Know what you are doing - you don't have to necessarily have to have 30 years experience, but it helps if you shot in the type of event before

2. Can I see some samples? - If someone needs a sports photographer, showing your wedding samples may not get you the gig. If you are getting referred, they will be forwarding your info on to the client and the client wants to see something.

3 Have the right personality - Not to call names, but do you know what I like about MyKey and Shutterflypro? They are both EXCELLENT photographers, but they have GREAT personalities and don't brag about how good they are...their work speaks for them. If you come across as arrogant to me, you'll probably be even worse to the person I'm referring you too.

4. You are working WITH me, I am not working FOR you! - if you are invited to be a 2nd shooter....remember that you are just that - SECOND...have respect for the person that got you in and don't use it as a business oppotunity or ignore the main photographer

5. My name is on the line too - When I am booked and someone asks me to recommend someone, they are hiring you based on my word to them, so if you do bad work, and I recommended you, that makes me look bad

6. Show some gratitude - You didn't get the opportunity, so how about a simple thank you. it cost you nothing and it may get you more work.

7. Pay it forward - you got help, so help someone else

[HotHolly]

To add to that -

1. Make sure your style meshes (at least a little) with who ever you are 2nd shooting for. Otherwise there will be a clear division in the images - thats usually not a good thing.

2. When shooting a wedding - you must KNOW the key shots (aka the bride will kill me if I miss these shots). eg - The bride walking down the aisle. Seems like a no-brainer, but I've seen it happen. My sisters wedding - no shot of her coming down the aisle - in either direction!

3. We tell our 2nd shooters to mirror the primary shooters location (approximately). Both photogs shouldn't be in the same location. Its the 2nd shooters job to work around the primary shooter and capture different angles.

I'll be on here looking for 2nd shooters also in a little while. One suggestion is to take your images and put them into an online portfolio, so that we can see your work quickly. It also makes it easier for you, rather than emailing images each time an oppertunity comes up.

And shy people - be brave! There are a bunch of us that are nice and wont bite your head off. So it cant hurt to send a PM when you see a 2nd shooter is needed.

[ndsimm]

good points......
Let me also add that I am not trying to come across as a "know-it-all" because I don't. know-it-all I am here to learn and grow, but I also want to challenge us to be the best we can be, so please take it as such.....

[venchka]

Having seen the requests for 2nd or 3rd shooters posted here I have given a little thought to stepping forward. A few of my thoughts on being The Other Shooter...

1. Mirror the Primary Shooter on the "money shots": Agreed. Stuff happens so two chances are better than one.

2. Go where the Primary Shooter isn't. Assuming the required photos are covered, the Second Shooter should be doing something different. Expanded coverage, seeing things a bit differently. Two heads, 4 eyes and different equipment may lend variety to the overall package.

3. Probably related to #2: Candids, candids and more candids. Primary does the formals. Second camera does candids. Even while the formals are being shot. Help tell the whole story.

4. Second Shooter adds to the equipment pool. I'm sure y'all expect that. Don't be surprised during the interview stage by what that may include.

I guess I am trying to say that the Second Camera(s) should supplement and compliment the Primary Camera(s).

If I am totally off base, please tell me.

[Slight Clutter]

This is a great list for those of us still navigating the 2nd shooter/primary shooter waters! Thanks for starting it.

If I may add...

In addition to "mirroring the primary shooter" and "going where the primary shooter isn't," a second shooter should also do his or her best to keep an eye on the primary shooter's frame, and stay out of it whenever possible.

The primary shooter should clearly articulate prior to the event what style of shooting and what subjects are desired. If for some reason the primary shooter fails to do this, the second should make a point to get these things cleared up prior to snapping the first shot.

The second shooter should have a solid understanding of product and timeline prior to the event. The when's, how's, and where's of product (RAW Files/PS'd Files) delivery.

Okay, that's all for now. Now I'll sit back quietly and learn from the experts. :)

[HotHolly]

I'll add, although its probably inferred...

Besides candids - I encourage our 2nd shooters to take LOTS of detail shots. That could be little details on the cake, flowers, jewelry, chair bows, or candid detail shots of people (hugs, dancing, eating, presentation of food, toasts, etc.) These shots are used as background/ filler in coffee table albums.

And I have to say, I've tagged along as a 2nd shooter before. Gasp! When our intern had her 1st gig, I came along as the "2nd shooter" mostly for moral support. 2nd shooting is fun!

Katya's suggestions of staying out of each others shots is a good point. Sometimes you wont be able to tell if you are in their frame or not (and you cant ask). We have a few signals to tell each other if they are clear or blocking the shot. Most of them resemble the happy face selection on here:

Am I in your frame? = Please don't kill me...

I got a good one! =

Get out of my shot! = (replace bat w/ monopod)

What the heck are you doing? =

Hee hee. Since we talk a lot prior tot he wedding, we can tell what the other person is gesturing. Good things to know. And avoids embarrassing gestures.

[ndsimm]

Originally Posted by Slight Clutter

The second shooter should have a solid understanding of product and timeline prior to the event. The when's, how's, and where's of product (RAW Files/PS'd Files) delivery.

Okay, that's all for now. Now I'll sit back quietly and learn from the experts. :)

Man, I completely forgot about this one!!! If the bride sees two photographers, she expects to see images from both cameras - "where is the shot that the other guy took of us?" If I give the bride 4-6 weeks, that means I need your shots within 2-3. I may even have you upload them on-site before leaving....I respect that they are your images and you will get proper credit so don't worry....

See? I told you I wasn't a know-it-all...

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by ndsimm

that means I need your shots within 2-3.

That may vary from studio to studio. We dump the images onto a drive AT the wedding and do all of the processing. So the 2nd shooter justs shoots with us. They also sign the correct paperwork before the wedding. I'm sure everybody does stuff their own way - thats what we do.

[Joe_Lorenzini]

As a second shooter I'll add a few things that help seconds be more successful:

1. Go to the rehearsal! This can not be overstated. It requires a bit of extra effort but it more than pays off. You can evaluate lighting, positioning, remote locations and get the inside scoop on where everyone will be situated before and after the ceremony as well as any personal events that happen during the ceremony. You can meet the pastor and ask any questions on positioning.

2. Make sure you print out your own set of directions to the ceremony location and from the ceremony to the reception. You are responsible for getting yourself there.

3. Program the lead's phone number into your cellphone, make sure they have yours.

4. Sync all cameras date and time on the day of the ceremony.

5. Always make sure the lead knows where you are at all times & never speak for the lead unless instructed to. If you don't know something, confirm it with the lead, don't guess.

6. Dress as the lead requests. Do not assume what to wear.

7. Arrive early, leave late. If you're scheduled to work 8 hours, stay 9.

8. Never, ever post a shot without the lead's permission.

9. Know your equipment!! Never shoot with a camera you picked up that day. You need to be very comfortable with your camera because there's not always time to think when getting that next shot.

10. You are there to compliment the lead. If they are taking bridal shots, you should be with the groom or at least taking shots of the crowd/family. There is no such thing as down-time for a second shooter.

11. Always be grateful for the opportunity. It may not be a portfolio type wedding but any experience under your belt is a good thing.

Most of this stuff probably doesn't need to be stated but I'm feeling long-winded today (bored to death sitting out the cold-front) so there ya go.

_/oe

[LoungeLizard]

Darn good list.

I may also add (Joe alluded to it) that you should respect the primary shooter's "gig". While they are "your" photos, you were working for the primary shooter. Respect any agreement in place - and if nothing is in writing, ask and treat it as you'd like others to treat yours.

[venchka]

Originally Posted by Slight Clutter

...The second shooter should have a solid understanding of product and timeline prior to the event. The when's, how's, and where's of product (RAW Files/PS'd Files) delivery.

That's sushi, right? Sync my cameras' date and time? My cameras can't tell time.

I guess that lets me out.

[dowxp]

How does one find second positions other than posting an ad in the regional boards? try a Studio Walk-in?

[atnlegacy]

It seems that experience is required for a 2nd shooter, which is completely understandable, as it is your name/reputation on the line. What do you suggest for those of us who are new and want/need 2nd (or 3rd) shooter experience under our belts? I haven't responded to the requests on this site because I don't have the experience and I don't want to mess up anyone's gigs. Thanks in advance!

[ngoduyviet]

Originally Posted by dowxp

How does one find second positions other than posting an ad in the regional boards? try a Studio Walk-in?

That's how I got started :) from knowing nothing and I mean litterally nothing about wedding photography except some ps. But I do read a lot, you'd be amazed at how helpful other fellow photographers are when they know you want to learn.

[ndsimm]

Originally Posted by dowxp

How does one find second positions other than posting an ad in the regional boards? try a Studio Walk-in?

Most of us will ask for help on here on the forum so keep looking....other than that, you might call a few photographers and "volunteer" as an assitant in exchange for tutoring