Wedding Pricing - Where to start

[hmiles619]

Anyone want to offer any tips or suggestions? I figure that I'll be average or slightly below as far as price range goes. How did you decide what to offer?

[brad]

No.

Do not price yourself based on what others are charging.

You start with your expenses.. how much are materials going to cost you? Prints? Albums? Insurance? Camera purchases and rentals? Cost of paying second shooters? Etc, etc.

Then figure out your time. How much did you spend on getting the sale? The phone calls and emails leading up to the wedding? The rehearsal? The wedding day? The post work? Album assembly?

How much do you need to make per hour to make that work worthwhile for you? Multiply that by the number of hours.. add your expenses.. that's what you charge. Period. If you don't know what those numbers are, you shouldn't be doing this as a business.

[hmiles619]

Originally Posted by brad

No.

Do not price yourself based on what others are charging.

You start with your expenses.. how much are materials going to cost you? Prints? Albums? Insurance? Camera purchases and rentals? Cost of paying second shooters? Etc, etc.

Then figure out your time. How much did you spend on getting the sale? The phone calls and emails leading up to the wedding? The rehearsal? The wedding day? The post work? Album assembly?

How much do you need to make per hour to make that work worthwhile for you? Multiply that by the number of hours.. add your expenses.. that's what you charge. Period. If you don't know what those numbers are, you shouldn't be doing this as a business.

I didn't say that I was going to base my prices on what others are charging, but to a point, you have to be comparable to other photographers.

If I don't know what those numbers are I shouldn't be in the business? haha, well there was one time where you didn't know what these numbers were right? It was probably about the time you had to charge for your first wedding. Well, that's where I'm at right now. I was trying to get a starting point. I was also trying to decide what to offer which is what I was asking.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by hmiles619

Anyone want to offer any tips or suggestions? I figure that I'll be average or slightly below as far as price range goes. How did you decide what to offer?

Not sure if you want to go below average - it attracts people (generally speaking) that are very difficult to work with. Your pricing has a lot to do with your time and products. We knew we wanted to spend time on the PP and on the shooting - so we charge accordingly.

You can look at what others in your area charge to get a benchmark, but that's all it is. You have to figure out what else you bring to the table, besides price. There is so much to wedding photography, if you try to compete on price alone, you won't get very far. Just MHO - others may have more to say. ;o)

[hmiles619]

that makes sense Holly...and both posts so far have offered good suggestions on where to start. I don't know for sure where I'll end up on price range, it was just a guess that I'd end up average or slightly below.

How did you decide what to offer as far as albums, prints, etc.?

[LoungeLizard]

Originally Posted by hmiles619

How did you decide what to offer as far as albums, prints, etc.?

I spent countless nights over several months looking at album options, looking at what other comparable skill photographers NATIONWIDE were offering, putting together spreadsheets on costs, profits estimates, etc.

Where should you begin? That's a VERY difficult question to answer - nearly impossible to do in this medium.

You may want to drive to Houston either Saturday or Sunday and walk through the Bridal Extravaganza and see what others are offering, what their pricing is, and how they compare to your work. I would research some album companies (start with Rangefinder magazine or similar professional rag) and deterimine what are the right products for YOU and the client you are going after in your area. Look at professional labs and what they can offer you.

I would not start "cheap" - but I would price an the par with your skills. I also assume that you'll have your sales tax registration, a DBA, a separate business account, and insurance. If not, you need to consider the risks of NOT having these.

[hmiles619]

thanks lizard. Great info. Do you know how much the bridal show costs to visit?

[Aric C. Hoek]

While Brad's answer may have seemed harsh to you, he is not very far off. You can really hurt yourself, and your business, and your family if you have one, not to mention the industry of photography itself. Other photographers can become irate if you disrupt the way of things by low balling.

This is what will happen if you do not charge enough for your product. You will be booking multiple weddings and feel that life is good because you are so booked up. But soon you will find that you do not have enough money to produce the products that you have promissed your clients, and you have already shot their weddings! Yikes! So you try to book more weddings, which only compounds the problem. You will be stuck with one of two decisions. You will either have to offer less product for the same price, or you will need to offer the same product for more price. Your instinct will to be to offer more product for more price, at which point you will be in the same spot. I have tried all three.

The solution is to price correctly from the get go. ( I am having fun using these smilies. One sec, need to refill the wine glass)

I do want to add a small thought to what Brad has said. Add up all of your expenses. Everything that you can think of, and I mean everything. After all, you are running a business and not a charity, right?

Here is the part that I would do a tad different. Once you figure out your total cost to produce a product and instead of asking your self what would it take to make it worth while, I would say that you need a bench mark. According to PPA, if you are a digital wedding photographer your bench mark is 25% cost of sales. Meaning, take your total cost to produce your product, and for simplicities sake lets say that cost is $100, and calculating what that figure is 25% of. $100 is 25% of what number? $400. Or you can just multiply your cost by four.

Use this rule. You will be glad you did.

Brad listed some costs, but I thought I would just go through my sequence of thoughts as well. I am sure that I may duplicate some of the items he has listed though.

30 Minutes for initial phone consultation
1.5 hours for in studio consultation
.5 hours of travel to wedding
6 hours of coverage
.5 hours of travel back from the wedding
2 hours to edit wedding
1 hour to backup and put images online
4 hours to design album
1 hour for album revisions
1 hour to upload the album to the lab and send order to your book binder
5 minutes of quality control once the product arrives back at the stuido
5 minutes to call your client and tell them that it is ready.
20 minutes to present the final product to your client.

Material costs:
Fuel to travel to event and back
Prints for album
Coat and spray of prints
Bind and mount of prints
book cover of prints
shipping prints to the book binder
shipping prints back from book binder

Add all this up. That number is 25% of what number? That is what you charge for your product.

So what do you do with the other 75% you collected from your client?

Pay your salary
Pay your studio rent
Pay your insurance
Pay employees
New equipment savings
Save some money for working capital (rainy day fund.. after all photography is a luxury and not a necessity)
Advertising (magazine, web, bridal shows, etc)
Phone Bill
Internet connection
Cell Bill
Electric if it is not covered in your rent.
Print costs (sample prints and albums)
Advertising materials (business cards, brochures, etc.)

Just as the PPA sets the bench mark of 25% Cost of Sales, it also tell you what percentage the above expenses should be. How much of the 75% should you be putting toward advertising? How much should go towards employee costs? etc. It has a percentage for everything... including YOUR SALARY!

I can't and won't disclose that information because this is information that the PPA provides, and you need to be a member to get that info. Intellectual property kind of thing.

At any rate, I hope that this wasn't more than you asked for, but it is the way the world works. Its a bit more than "how much should I charge for an 8x10". People who have been in this business for some time are passionate about making their business work, and they are proud of the scars that they have received in their journeys to get where they are. I can tell you though, once you have all your numbers in place, you have a feeling of enpowerment that allows you to move forward with confidence. Find your numbers. They are different for everyone, because we all deliver a different quality of product. Let me know if you want me to go into that at all and I will.

[Aric C. Hoek]

Originally Posted by LoungeLizard

You may want to drive to Houston either Saturday or Sunday and walk through the Bridal Extravaganza and see what others are offering, what their pricing is, and how they compare to your work

This will tell you how other people are charging. You have no idea if they are making money or not. You have no idea how long they have been in business or if they have a good reputation. You only know if they have pretty pictures for the potential customers to look at and you may know what their pricing is. Who is to say that they have not changed their pricing just for the show?

Find you numbers, and stick to your guns. I have lost hundreds of potential clients because I am more expensive than the last photographer they just talked to. That's fine with me.

Make sure you are making money. Photography is fun, but you can grow to resent it if you turn it into a burden because you are not charging enough. I know.

I am having a small get together of professional photographers on 8/25. 2 out of 6 seats are already taken. The meeting cost is free. Sign up for my news letter using the link in my signature for details. Am I allowed to even say that on this forum? I mean announcing a free get together? Don't want to break any rules here as I love this place.

OK. I am off to see if I can write a small novel to someone else's question.

[Daniel Bates]

That's good advice, right there (and from Brad and Holly and Jesus, of course).

I ran some numbers for myself and decided that going full-time wasn't a good idea for me at the time. It's a tough decision...

[hmiles619]

thanks aric...that is exactly what I was looking for and a great place to start. I understand about not undercutting other photographers, and charging enough to cover all expenses, but I really didn't know where to start computing it all. This will help a lot.

Where can I find more info on the PPA?

[hmiles619]

Originally Posted by Daniel Bates

That's good advice, right there (and from Brad and Holly and Jesus, of course).

I ran some numbers for myself and decided that going full-time wasn't a good idea for me at the time. It's a tough decision...

That's what I'm doing now, and if I don't go full time I'd like have a successful and serious part time job right now. What was it about the numbers that told you not to continue with it?

[Aric C. Hoek]

Originally Posted by hmiles619

thanks aric...that is exactly what I was looking for and a great place to start. I understand about not undercutting other photographers, and charging enough to cover all expenses, but I really didn't know where to start computing it all. This will help a lot.

Where can I find more info on the PPA?

http://www.ppa.com

[Daniel Bates]

My expected income wasn't enough to support my projected expenses. (Ooops...) Also, ultimately, I knew I did not really, really, passionately want to set up shop as a full-time photographer - at least not in that manner. Once I realized that, I gave up the idea altogether. If you don't really want to do it, the initial hardships will be really difficult to get through...


You have to figure out what your market is, and what clients you will target in your market (e.g., low, middle, high).

[Aric C. Hoek]

Originally Posted by Daniel Bates

My expected income wasn't enough to support my projected expenses. (Ooops...) Also, ultimately, I knew I did not really, really, passionately want to set up shop as a full-time photographer - at least not in that manner. Once I realized that, I gave up the idea altogether. If you don't really want to do it, the initial hardships will be really difficult to get through...


You have to figure out what your market is, and what clients you will target in your market (e.g., low, middle, high).

My thought on that is that you are not charging enough. You are not calculating your numbers correctly. You don't have to make your cost of sales 25%. You can make them 23% to give yourself a larger salary.

Now my X factor is of course what you are making currently. If you are an executive pulling down middle six figures a year.. yah you are going to have a hard time in the beginning living in the same life style. Even if you are making much less, I still have no idea what you are trying to sell and how much of it you plan on selling.

I am just trying to say that there is an equation, and there is always a bit of wiggle room in that equation. Try and find that wiggle room through looking at different book binders, different photo labs, different advertising solutions. There may be many ways to save money and put that money right into your pocket.