Wedding Industry Stuff

[toverman]

I certainly value your opinion and have enjoyed some of the work you've posted here. I am not disputing your insulation from some of the lower-end trends now.

My point is that there are market factors (even those we don't know about) that could change the entire industry, top to bottom and sideways. It's more than the digital revolution, which is driving a lot of the bottom feeders. It's an unknown.

There is the potential for "all" photographers to be affected in some way by something. And while I agree with the sentiment behind your "always" and "never" statements, the target for what and how much people will be willing to pay for can shift.

Things will change, and not necessarily for the worse. Whatever happens, I am sure you and most of the other fine photogs you named will be able to adapt as they always have, and that may mean changing nothing or could mean revamping a business model completely. I think we're at least sort of agreeing but not quite meeting in the middle.

And hearkening back to the original post, which was about a photographer who was probably charging next-to-nothing and getting tons of work, the strong possibility is either the business model will fail for lack of profit or she will get burned out. And as far as that goes, there is the potential for "all" photographers to burn out at some point.

[toverman]

Wanted to add that I've enjoyed the discussion and other comments. And whoopee! I made it go to two pages.

[Bennie]

Originally Posted by toverman

I certainly value your opinion and have enjoyed some of the work you've posted here. I am not disputing your insulation from some of the lower-end trends now.

My point is that there are market factors (even those we don't know about) that could change the entire industry, top to bottom and sideways. It's more than the digital revolution, which is driving a lot of the bottom feeders. It's an unknown.

There is the potential for "all" photographers to be affected in some way by something. And while I agree with the sentiment behind your "always" and "never" statements, the target for what and how much people will be willing to pay for can shift.

Things will change, and not necessarily for the worse. Whatever happens, I am sure you and most of the other fine photogs you named will be able to adapt as they always have, and that may mean changing nothing or could mean revamping a business model completely. I think we're at least sort of agreeing but not quite meeting in the middle.

And hearkening back to the original post, which was about a photographer who was probably charging next-to-nothing and getting tons of work, the strong possibility is either the business model will fail for lack of profit or she will get burned out. And as far as that goes, there is the potential for "all" photographers to burn out at some point.

So, will we driven by a bunch of "unknowns"?

Maybe the stock market will bottom out.

Maybe we will get hit with world war 3.

Maybe you or I will drop dead tomorrow.

That's not sound business practices. And frankly it has nothing to do with the market or the profession as it currently is.

So what is keeping you from adapting from the greats? First of all you have to be different.

And the subject of the OP is eligable for food stamps. No kidding. None of us aspire to that. It really doesn't matter if she is charging a few hundred bucks a wedding.

[toverman]

Not driven by unknowns (driven by passion, maybe), just cognizant. And that's my last comment on this, I promise!

[Bennie]

No Tover,
At least I hope not. I like the discourse. I'm just giving you a different way of looking at things. (I hope. :-))

[Bennie]

And just so you know, I'm not anywhere in the statosphere of the photogs I mentioned. I know about a 10th of what they know and price accordingly. And when they zig, and I try to zag, while keeping the same business principles and attempted quality.

[jonnydonut]

i wonder her skill level. i admit, I was cheap a few years ago and gave away the files like candy. I know better now. I am better now too.

I know, I would def hesitate to pay a photographer what I charge for weddings. I can see how cheap options are tempting, and you'd be surprised how low of standards some people have for their photos.

Hopefully in the next few years brides will start to realize that a pro camera doesn't make you a pro, and people will start to notice "consumer" photographers when they see them or their work.

[jkderby]

Comes down to knowing how to market yourself. The most important part of a wedding is the photographer. After the wedding is over that is all that is left to remember it by. Have been doing this for 30 years. I did not do my daughters wedding but I knew how important it was and that is why I spent $6k plus on the photography. Glad I did !!

[GeraldR]

I have a very good friend that lives out of state who is one of those people that money is rarely an obstical when it comes to his family. When his only daughter was planning her wedding my friend would not go with the top level photographer his daughter wanted because the photographer required full payment before the wedding day. As a result he hired another photographer who would take final payment when delivering prints. This photographer was at a dramatically lower price point.

It is now two years later and my friend has not forgiven himself for making this decision. I got what he paid for, lower quality images and a photographer that was late missing the shots before the ceremony. Oh his wife has not let him forget the poor decision he made.

[Bennie]

Hehe Gerald. I hear you.

I don't let the "pay me all upfront" thing get me down. It's in my contract that they pay 2 weeks before, but that not a stumbling block for me. I just tell them in a light hearted way that I will be holding the photos hostage until I'm paid. I'm not worried that they will hate them.

I had three brides come to me about a year ago interested in a booking. Two of them signed up, and I did the wedding. The weddings (the two anyway) are here on this forum. One of them is the "Star Spangled Wedding". Anyhoo, the third bride decided to cheap out. Not too much cheaper mind you. She cheaped out by a few hundred bucks because I refused to cave to freebies and discounts.

So, her two friend's wedding came before hers. She saw our photos and was so excited that she would get the same kind of thing.

But she didn't. The photog was 1 hour late, missed vital shots, and screwed up about half of them.

She wrote me a letter describing the above, and lementing that she made a wrong choice.

But the deal is, she met with me, she saw my work, she saw the other photog's samples, she had ample opportunity to check references which I provided, check the internet, and basically do her research. Either she didn't do that, or she opted out for the cheaper guy based on price.

And her photos suck, because she sent me a link. And now she is sorry.
I can't help that. I did the best I could to convince her. She had every modern day tool to check out the other photog. She didn't ask to see real live galleries of recent and full weddings.

Again, you will win some, and you will lose some. As bad as I feel for some of the brides who make bad decisions (and sometimes they chose other people and when I look back it was the better decision), I can't be responsible for those who make stupid decisions made over a few hundred bucks.

I feel bad that they got crappy photos mind you.

I'll never talk down on another photographer to a potential client. Ever. No matter how much I personally think they suck. First of all, it's not my place. Secondly, it's ultimately up to the bride. What I think sucks, she might love.

But when you get the regretful bride, you can't beat yourself up about it. Hopefully you did your best to go with you, because you believe in your work.
And if you lost her, and she got crappy work because she wanted to shave a few hundred bucks, you can't feel bad either.

All you can do is present your work, cross your fingers, and hope they get it.

[w9ctm]

OK,
I have read all of the posts before I started even typing this.

I am kinda, sorta new to photography in the sense that as a kid, I was heavy into it. I used an old Argus C-3 and shot B&W. Learned a lot and had a great time doing it. As I got more interested in the female sex, I ran out of time for photography. (I know, major mistake on my part...)
Jumping forward, in 1998 I got into video and happened to shoot a couple of house fires and managed to sell them to a local TV station. Jump forward 6 months and I was into it hard. TV stations were calling me to free lance stuff my way, as it was cheaper to hire me than send one of their crews one to one and a half hours down to where I was in the middle of the night, as by the time they arrived on scene, whatever was happening, was already over. I progressed from that stuff to doing weddings as I wanted to be creative and I really enjoy people. I enjoy sharing moments with couples.
When I got into the business, everything was VHS or S-VHS unless you had lots of money to invest. I quickly got busy doing weddings and spending a lot of time editing. More weddings, more and better equipment. Don't worry, I'm getting there....
One of my biggest problems was everyone wanting to know why a bride should hire me, instead of Joe Schmo down the street who was only $200.00 less than I was. I also had brides trying to talk me into lowering my price, even though I admittedly was too low.

After talking to lots of other videographers in the wedding video business from all over the country, I kept receiving the same advice; "If you price yourself for the bargain-hunters, that's all you'll get. People that have the money to hire a good professional videographer (or in this case, photographer...) aren't going to quibble about the price, and are not going to look for discounts. These folks are going to expect to receive a quality product for the quality price they are paying. However, be sure you have a quality product if you're going to charge a quality price. You'll be happy and your clients will be happy."

Also, you can shoot 50 weddings for $500 each and make $25,000 a year, or charge $2000 for a wedding and only do one a month, and still make the same money. Oh, and have free time to spend with the family...

I got out of the video business when I was charging $3000.00 for a three camera shoot. My problem was, I spent another 40 to 60 hours editing. And this was a part-time job for me, as I was also a product engineer in Caterpillar's Mining Division. In May of 2000, I had a mild heart attack from the stress. So I closed my video business, and changed jobs. I even got divorced. No stress anymore. The story continues from there, but I am wandering

Anyhow, I think this advice applies here as well. If you are shooting weddings, and are doing a good job, then charge accordingly. if you price yourself above the low-ballers, you won't have to deal with their clients. And Cindy is right. If you are busy doing what you enjoy doing, why spend time lamenting about what you have no control over. Just keep doing what makes you who you are, and keep experimenting and learning. Hopefully, you'll continue to improve, and will keep getting new clients.

I really enjoy photography and have considered shooting weddings, but just haven't decided yet. Besides that, I would probably have to start on the bottom, and I don't know if I want to be in the same pot of goo as so many others are.