Wedding Industry Stuff

[HotHolly]

I was at a bridal market in Oklahoma last weekend when I stopped in my tracks listening to one of the show volunteers talking. She was saying that she has over 30 weddings on the calendar for the remainder of this year and she couldnt be more than 20 years old. Not dissing the young shooters that got stuff down pat, but that is a serious client base for someone that age! I could hear her talking while I was browsing racks. She was there to get more clients, so she was talking loudly. There were brides at this place also.

Apparently she was so cheap, she had over 60 wedding the year before. Other local photographers were calling her telling her to raise her prices b/c she was WAY too cheap. She said she thought that was weird, but so many were calling her. She thought she was charging a lot. And the photogs calling weren't mean, they were trying to educate her. She was so thrilled she had a full calendar, she ignored them until this year. She finally figured out the amount of pay she was getting wasnt worth her time. It took a year to see that. She blew off the other photogs thinking they were jealous.

This says nothing about her ability - she may totally rock. You never know. But I've heard this several times now - why not shoot a full wedding day for $200 and give them all the files? And we wonder what's happening to wedding photography.

It makes me wish the manufacturers would stop marketing their cameras toward consumers and telling them they are just like a pro now. Anyway, I should start a book - Secrets from Inside the Bridal Shop. You wouldnt believe what brides really think about wedding photography.

On the upside, reports from the bridal industry are saying the new client wave wants to be pampered and have the creme della creme. So sharpen your skills and figure out how to faun over clients while we shift away from the bargain wedding shoppers. Maybe the wedding photography business will take a turn too. The change is supposed to be based on a generational reaction against being as cheap as humanly possible with your wedding. The next decade is supposed to go in the opposite direction. That'd be nice.

[barP]

my theory is that inevitably this will work in favor of the real wedding photographers. as the customer base becomes more educated, the supply side will become more stratified. and if anything, that will make charging higher prices easier for the people who earn the right.

wp.

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

It makes me wish the manufacturers would stop marketing their cameras toward consumers and telling them they are just like a pro now.

Ha! That would make it fairly difficult to sell those cameras!

[Gateruner]

Brides think like that until after the wedding when their photos suck. I have been hearing this alot lately. They either havent gotten their photos in over a year or they wont show them because they dont like them. It is to bad they cant see that before the wedding and their priorities would change. One bridesmaid couldnt believe that our bride had her photos within 10 days of the wedding ready to view. That is one of the BM's that doesnt have her photos yet.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by Joe_Lorenzini

Ha! That would make it fairly difficult to sell those cameras!

Yeah, but if you bought a pair of pro ballet shoes you wouldnt think you could go be in the Nutcracker and do pointe and all that. No one is that nuts...unless you are talking about cameras.

As for people seeing they got crap after the wedding, yeah, hearing lots of tears about that. I'm assuming their little sisters, yet to be married, are the ones who are sick of internet gowns and cheap photographers and all the things that can go screwy when you do things that route.

We've incorperated something into our wedding photography consult that seems to help. I have shots taken with a throw away camera, a p&s, a pro camera, and then a pro camera shot with PP. You put the last one (which is what we sell) next to the 1st one and they can see for themselves. I dont even have to say anything.

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

Yeah, but if you bought a pair of pro ballet shoes you wouldnt think you could go be in the Nutcracker and do pointe and all that. No one is that nuts...unless you are talking about cameras.

I think you're missing the big picture. It's not the cameras themselves but the technology that makes people believe in the promise made by camera companies. It's no different than any other technology advancements. Video is one that's been around forever, even before cameras caught up. Audio recording (bands make their own CD's now).

Heck, brides don't think they need a wedding coordinator because of all the "tools" that are out there to do it themselves (I know from personal experience how critical a coordinator can be and I'm sure you do as well).

Eventually I believe you're right. Not only will brides demand better quality but the fly-by-night photographers will fade away as well.

_/oe

[HotHolly]

The ballet metaphor was an exaggeration. ;o) I know why they think they can do it. When you put in perspective with other learned arts, it doesn't make much sense. Key word being 'learned.' I'd like to see fly-by-nights disappear too.

[luis_relampago]

I have done a lot of retakes for people that couldn't afford my services do to budgets, they originally went with a cheaper option, basically the photography option that the reception hall offered with their packages, and they came back to retake their formals and large prints because they weren't satisfied with what the end up getting. It's a simple principal "you get what you pay for" I think people is now realizing that is not the tool it self, is the master who handles it. anybody can buy a DSLR and a flash unit but to take a real photo takes a lot more than that, it takes knowledge, skills, experience and taste. The business is slowly getting better at least on the side of my market (hispanic events) I see that people is asking for more than snaps and they want quality instead of quantity. We will never get rid of the uncle or cousin with the DSLR and the flash unit, but our quality must speak for us, I have snatched gigs out the hands of this individuals with my portfolio and just talking some sense to the clients, education is the key element here.

God Bless!

[Gateruner]

One of the big problems is photography is near dead last in importance to the bride that is so worried about having a great party. She isnt worrying about her photos and figures anyone can take good pics and "fix" them in PS or she can get the dig negs and do her own album. I think there will be a circle that will come around to people actually making surre to get a quality photog but I dont believe it is going to happen as quick as some think.

[12stones]

It's not just wedding photography. I read a post on another forum about a photog who decided to do her own work, got the prices for senior pics from other local photogs and then purposefully priced herself at 50% of what the average was in her area. I haven't seen her work so I can't comment on that, but it's the mindset that's frustrating.

[Jessica Merritt]

Originally Posted by Gateruner

Brides think like that until after the wedding when their photos suck. I have been hearing this alot lately.

Me too. We had a bride tell us that she specifically decided to book us instead of someone else because she was scared about getting crappy photos like one of her friends did.

[andyz]

I had a coworker of my wife ask me to do their engagements and wedding. I told them I'd do the e-session and if they like them, we'll talk about the wedding. I haven't done one before. Yes, if I were going pro I'd try to find a mentor and work my way up. As it is, I'll risk an experiment if they're willing. And time isn't an issue. If they don't like my work, there is plenty of time to find a photog. I know I don't want to give away my time, so I was researching what I should charge.

I was surprised how many advertise that they do give away a CD with hi-res images. Many have that as part of a package. But when you get to Craigs List, there are so many who will do a wedding for next to nothing and some offer just the CD with no work on the photos. (The bride had better hope the photog really knows what s/he is doing to get them right, out of camera.)

But if someone shops for a photographer and is thinking price, they'll be inundated with what I believe is many of those wanna-be photogs who spent $600 for a camera and "can shoot like a pro."

But I agree with the sentiments above, there is art to the eye, catching what needs to be seen to reflect a moment in time. That can't be done by giving Joe Blow a 1DsMKII.

[Joe_Lorenzini]

Originally Posted by HotHolly

The ballet metaphor was an exaggeration. ;o) I know why they think they can do it. When you put in perspective with other learned arts, it doesn't make much sense. Key word being 'learned.' I'd like to see fly-by-nights disappear too.

I hear you.

I think another reason that may go overlooked sometimes is that people don't know how to pick a good photographer. Bad press about paparazzi and pervert photogs create a general perception of fear so why not let Uncle Harold take the shots with his new Rebel. That's where quality, personality and references come in and the fly-by-nighters are usually lacking in all three...

Thoughts?

[AnnetteT]

I almost started a topic on a similar subject...but saw this and thought I'd jump in.

There are a lot of people out there doing work for next to nothing. They show a few passable pictures and the brides think "oh! same quality" and book them. Then after the wedding and they start looking at what they "got," the disappointment sets in.

I know this because in the past year, I've done two "re-engagement" sessions for couples who booked their wedding photographer from Craigslist.

I'm not putting down Craigslist at all. It's how I started. I tried to find a photographer to mentor me, couldn't and finally advertised for free/cheap weddings to build a portfolio and gain experience. But I told every single bride that I was doing this. I wasn't selling myself as experienced and delivering overprocessed (or underprocessed) crap.

I had two brides last year who booked someone who is on Craigslist and claims to have a lot of wedding experience. One cancelled before the wedding after she saw her friend's wedding pics they did. The other came to me after to do a wedding portrait reshoot.

It irks me because I see ads from some of these photographers putting other photographers down. I've been in marketing over 20 years and in my wildest dreams...I have never seen any tactics from even aggressive advertisers like Coke and Pepsi that overtly list things about the industry that aren't true...or make up "standards" that don't exist in the wedding photography industry.

There are reasons that good editing takes time. I could whip my pictures through Lightroom in 4-6 hours. Have done it just to see if I could. But the fact is, I want to do things right. I look at every individual image. I fix spots, blemishes, power cords, electrical lines, etc. on key images. I look at the entire story and decide how to present it to make the strongest impact. My brides would love to have their pictures in a week. But they would rather have exceptional quality images done right.

Sadly, some of these brides are learning way too late what questions to ask. This is a very budget-focused wedding economy. Much more than last year. And these brides are looking for anything that seems quality, but that is more affordable.

I am sad to think that the advent of the Prosumer camera is essentially diluting the ethics and professional responsibility of creative professionals. When I started out in design and marketing, I had to learn to walk before I ran. I didn't go to interviews and say "I'm a professional" until I had a few years of solid experience under my belt. When I started doing weddings, I approached it the same way. I wanted to build experience and learn from others who knew way more than I did.

Sadly, people are picking up a camera, throwing a flash on and *bing* instant photographer. It has already started to give the industry a bad name...an air of cheesiness...a loss of respect....and I can only imagine it getting worse.

I have no idea what to do to combat this, except to educate brides a little better. And to plead with those that are trying to make a living off people's "one day" of memories, to please get the experience, pay the dues and do it right.

I'm sure some of my comments will rub some the wrong way, but I just sat at a table this morning with a bride and her matron of honor...where the matron of honor hired someone from CL last year and brought some of her images/poses she liked. They were blown out, overprocessed, some had greenish yellow skintones, others had very orange skintones. When she saw the ones I was showing the bride, she said "I wish I would have known about you last year" and looked really sad. When all was said and done, the price difference by the time it was finished would have been less than $1000 and she would have had images she really liked.

[bthompson]

It is frustrating to see the endless number of people who think that buying a DSLR makes them a pro out there. Yes. It's frustrating because people actually pay these people. It's frustrating because it makes it harder for the new people who actually take the time to develop a skill and do things right.

But.. part of me can't help but say.. The consumer brings it upon themselves. They are so desperate to save a buck that they harm themselves in the end. That's what sad, but you can only do so much. :|