How to be a Successful Wedding Photographer

[jasonhuang]

I thought I might take the example from this thread (http://www.texasphotoforum.com/forum...817#post858817) and open a discussion on pricing.

The bride&groom requested:

- 8 hours of coverage
- 2 photographers
- Wedding Album
- 2 Parent Albums
- Engagement Portrait Session
- Hi-Res disc of negatives of Wedding Day images and Engagement Portrait session images with permission to make prints for personal use
-$2500 or less

I'll start by discussing what we would normally quote for a package like this: at minimum, $6750 + tax


And here's a sample breakdown of what things *could* cost YOU as the photographer. Keep in mind two things: we're still pretty young into this whole wedding photography business so take this with some salt and two, these prices aren't actual. just estimates.

8 hours of coverage - not much cost here. possibly an hourly to yourself of like $65/. keep in mind processing time. 1 hr shooting = 1 hr processing, etc. also keep in mind your cost of living (rent, utilities, car, etc.) and cost of running a business (memberships, taxes, supplies, fees, marketing, customer service, etc.)

2nd shooter - depending on rate/skill of 2nd shooter requested, this can range anywhere from $150 - $500 for the 8 hour wedding.

Wedding album - this is where it could get a little more complicated depending on the albums you use. i calculated for a 40pg album for our quote. cheaper albums with thin pages can cost as little as $150 for a 40 pg 10x10 album where expensive albums with thick pages and genuine leather covers can cost near $450 for a 40pg 10x10. this is just the COST to print and bind. don't forget your design time/rate (anywhere from $200-$400).

Parent albums - i make the assumption that the parent albums are the same design as the main album (so there's no additional design fee/cost). again, parent albums depend on the quality of the album provided. 8x8 flushmount copies can cost as much as $300 a book where cheaper flip books can cost like $25 a book.

Engagement session - time and processing, again, are factors here. additional assistants, location fees, supplies (disc to send files on) are also calculated in.

Hi-res disc - i'm in the camp that believes you should give your files to your clients. i'm also in the camp that believes print sales are just icing on the cake. but, if you are in the other camps, i respect that too. as for selling the disc, people have been known to put a price tag of anywhere from $150 to $5000 on the disc. some people give out the RAWS, sooc, others give out edited jpgs. you have to determine what has value to you and to your clients. if the edited jpgs have value, charge for those. if the unedited raws have value, charge for those. costs of shipping, packaging, and time are factored in here as well.

As you can probably tell, $2500 for all that isn't much profit, let alone rent $. If you have another primary job, you might be fine. If you don't, you're probably screwed. :-)


Just starting out discount - if you're just starting out, great! hope you're not in dfw or we'll come to your studio and break your cameras. j/k. it's seriously great that more people are getting into photography and starting to take this business more seriously. couple things. if you go into it, go into it 100%. get your tax license, register with the state, do things legally. it's really NOT your choice whether or not you want to pay sales tax. anything that leaves a trail is taxable and irs-huntable. if you don't charge tax, you're still liable to pay it. if you do everything with cold hard cash and no contracts, get yourself an entourage.

second, charge TODAY what you want to be charging a year from today. if you're just starting out, do not shoot a solo wedding. you can ONLY shoot a solo wedding if the bride and groom don't even want pictures. in that case, there's no value attached to what you do/don't do. best route? beg and plead an established studio to let you tagalong and learn the flow of a wedding day and (if you aren't assisting and get to shoot) to critique your work. unfortunately, this is the hard part because most established studios are pretty busy taking care of their own clients to take time to critique/train someone else. it's definitely not meant to be rude, just has to do with priorities. this was the main route i took. shout out to dori and jason from photogenicimages.net! (we'll try to have spots open from time to time for tagalongs/assistants on weddings and portrait sessions, but no guarantees).

there are a ton of other ways people break into the business, but the primary lesson is: don't do it alone. your clients and their wedding images are way to precious for you to mess up. *especially* in this economy. we're finding that people are willing to pay more for their photography and spend less on everything else. (for example, we just got a deposit for a bride who hasn't set her location yet. she booked us for a date and will do everything else around that date) consequently, these are the types of clients we LOVE working with anyway... :-)


so, i hope this helps a little and gives you a glimpse of what it would take to run a business. keep in mind that a wedding photography business is 85% business, 15% photography. a business is still a business regardless of what you provide.

[Tom]

http://www.stacyreeves.com/photographers-pricing-guide/

I am going to highlight what the very lovely and very Aggie Stacy Reeves put on her website. Check it out. Stacy is a very talented photographer who can trace her roots back to a similar tree as me (The Batt and Howard Eilers.)

[jasonhuang]

YES! Thanks thomas. I knew I forgot something!

[toverman]

Originally Posted by jasonhuang

we're finding that people are willing to pay more for their photography and spend less on everything else. (for example, we just got a deposit for a bride who hasn't set her location yet. she booked us for a date and will do everything else around that date) consequently, these are the types of clients we LOVE working with anyway... :-)

I'd like to find more people like that, too!

[stacyreeves]

Jason is a fantastic photographer and businessperson and his business has skyrocketed (especially when he started charging what he was worth). He's a great guy to take advice from if you're looking to get on the fast track to running a successful studio!

Figuring out the *cost* of running your business is absolutely without a doubt the most important thing you should do when determining your pricing. It all starts there.

Referencing the thread that started this, a wedding package providing all that would cost ME at least

$350 album + shipping
$300 parent albums + shipping
$150 outsourced editing
$250 business overhead (to cover all the misc. things that come along)
$400 second shooter ($50/hr, my standard rate for a quality SS)
$50 digital negative packaging + shipping
$700 to taxes (income and fica)

That's $2200.. That means for the bride's ideal budget of $2500 I would make a whopping total of $300. I don't know about you guys, but that's not NEARLY enough to make it worth my while, especially not when this is my full time job.

[ndsimm]

Thanks for the great info guys! I know in this world YMMV, but this is good for anyone starting out to read before they accept that wedding "for practice" and then think they can be cheaper, without figuring out the real "costs" involved.

[jasonhuang]

If there's anyone's advice you should follow, it's Stacy's. She won't toot her own horn, but luckily, I have a late model one from ebay with her name on it. She was booked up for 09 before it was 09. That should say something about her business plan. Sure, her work is great, but considering that there are still photographers out there with incredible work that are barely booked for 09, you have to put quality of work to the side and credit her business sense. And as much as I hate to admit it (hook 'em!), she has it. :-)

[Azzure]

Great info... ...
Thanks much

[DanielSeth]

Originally Posted by stacyreeves

$700 to taxes (income and fica)

Just want to point out that if your set up your business as an LLC with S Corp Election (consult your CPA, of course), you can pay yourself a tiny salary and collect the rest of the money as a partnership dividend return from your business. Thus, you only pay the fica (~15%) on say $12,000 salary ($1,000/month salary, ~$1,800 fica taxed annually) and you don't pay fica on the rest of your income. If you make over $100k, you're saving roughly ~$13k.

The risk is that your SS income is much lower and you would eligible for a lower SS payout when you retire, but you can invest that $13k/year on your own or spend it on new lenses.

And if you have at least 2 employees in your LLC, you can get a group rate health insurance plan and deduct the monthly premiums.

Perhaps this was covered in a tax thread somewhere but I thought it was worth mentioning here because that "$700 in taxes" would be a couple hundred less.

Thanks for reading!
-dan (willing to work for free if I can tag along with some of you)

[stacyreeves]

Aw shucks Jason.. you're really earning that bribe money I paid you! ;)

Daniel, thanks for that info.. I had considered the LLC route and decided against it, but that definitely is some food for thought! May have to call up my CPA again!

[tresorph]

My dad always drilled into me that the only thing good to come out of Dallas was I-45. Well um... I stand corrected. I think Stacy and Jason are pretty darned awesome. Thanks for the pdf and for (both of you) paying it forward. I'm tweaking my COGS spreadsheet again.

[David Whatley]

Originally Posted by stacyreeves

That's $2200.. That means for the bride's ideal budget of $2500 I would make a whopping total of $300. I don't know about you guys, but that's not NEARLY enough to make it worth my while, especially not when this is my full time job.

$300.00 divided by 8 hours = $37.50 an hour. Sounds like you need a part time job as a second shooter, they make more money

Now, that gives me an idea, Stacy, come be my main shooter, I then could pay you 37.50 an hour, and I make 50.00 as the SS. And my clients get better photo's Gee, I see a great business model comming here.
DW

[stacyreeves]

Good thing I would never in my right mind accept a wedding like that.. That girl is nuts! And the people accepting her bid are even nuttier!

[AllenAyres]

Great info Jason (hook-em!) and Stacy, thank you :) I need to tweak my COGS spreadsheet too :)

[photostein]

The other thing I would recommend is include in your pricing the retaining fee for your business lawyer. If you go into photography without a good lawyer, you are just drawing more rope each day until you hang yourself.

This is the one thing I find least discussed on this forum in the business section. I don't know if it is arrogance on the part of new photographers (seasoned photographers have already learned or heeded the advice), or what.

The photography contract with the client has so many intagbiles that getting a customized template contract reviewed by your lawyer to ensure the rights you are keeping and selling are legal and binding. This is business 101 stuff.

Oh yeah, the title of this thread includes "successful." I don't consider a business "successful" unless there is a lawyer behind the word ensuring it is spelled right. That is how important a good lawyer is.

My 2cents.