Any Tips on church wedding with no flash?

[photosbysergio]

I have been searching threads on this question and found a few comments but does anyone have suggestions on shooting a wedding when no flash is allowed? It is in 2 weeks so I am trying to get all the info I can before then. I have a Canon 30D and will be using mostly 70-200 2.8L IS and 24-70 2.8L lenses. I will have a monopod for the ceremony. As far as I know i can use a flash for the formals after the ceremony so it's just the ceremony I am concerened about. Do I use the IS function on the zoom and should I mostly shoot in Aperture mode? I will be going to do a few test shots sometime this week but hope to take some good advice before I attemt the test shots. I want to try out differnt ISO settings and different Aperture settings. I have always been able to use flash so I am seeing this as an exciting challenge. Any help is welcomed. Sergio

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Sergio,

You should use the IS mode both on and off the monopod. You should shoot exclusively shoot in A-priority mode (when not using a flash). Unless you've got some reason you need a deeper depth-of-field, shoot with the lowest F-stop you can. I know a couple of Photogs who rent 200mm F/2 lenses and use a tripod in the rear of the church for the actual ceremony. This may be an option for you.

As for ISO (which is an entire thread in and of itself), shoot as high an ISO as you can without compromising image quality (i.e. too high noise). You're shooting Canon so noise usually isn't too much of an issue with them at higher ISOs. You can probably get away with something between 800 and 1200... maybe even 1600. But I wouldn't set the ISO any higher than you have to... does your camera have an "auto ISO" mode? If so, you may want to try it. It may even have an option to limit the maximum ISO and/or the minimum shutter speed... all depending on your camera.

- Wil

[Elsaspet]

I never shoot flash in churches even when allowed. I do a lot of Catholic ceremonies, so I just always take it at a given that no flash is allowed at any time. I also assume I will be in the back unable to move. No aisles. Again, just what I am used to.
Hopefully you have two cameras. You want one wide and one tight. If the church isn't too big, the 70-200 will do you. You didn't mention the length of the chapel, so I can't recommend a second lens.
Monopods during ceremony is usually a no-no, at least in my experience.
You also didn't mention the time of day or the available amount of ambient light. Be prepared to go to 1600 ISO, and leave those lenses (if you are far back) at 2.8 if it's a big church. Focus on the bride, and then recompose on the groom if they are sideways. Focus on the priest if they are facing forwards. You can go higher in apature, but unless you have a pretty steady hand, or it's a really shallow chapel, you'll be screwed.
Prep the bride, groom and their parties to take a short break as they enter the chapel so that you can get a shot off. Again, I am used to being in the very back with no flash. Watch for exterior lighting behind the enterance doors. You will most likely have to change your settings when shooting back to front.
I urge you to go to the rehearsal and test everything. You don't want to find out, the day of, that nothing is working right.
Best of luck.
Cindy

[Holly]

You definitely have the right lenses for the job. I shoot everything at 2.8 to get better shutter speeds during flash-less ceremonies. Actually even clergy that allow us to use flash, we refrain from doing so...save for the processional and recessional. We feel it to be too intrusive during the actual vows. I would shoot only in manual mode. Exposures vary depending on the amount of ambient light but the majority of the time we are around 1/30th - 1/60th at 2.8, ISO's from 400-1600. These can vary of course and you are right about getting some test shots in. We are usually able to do a few test shots during the preparation phase of the wedding day, once we follow the bride to the church. Be careful if your subjects are strongly backlit by a bright altar, but they themselves are standing in shadow. To properly expose them, not using flash, you will blow out the backgrounds...but I've found couple to prefer to see themselves than the bright background...of course you can always combine the two in photoshop to have both exposed properly. Just takes a bit more time if you choose to do it for all of the ceremony images. Not much sure how much help this has been, but good luck and have fun with it!! :)

[Elsaspet]

Bottom line, there is no magic formula to the settings on your camera. The back of the church is gonna be different from the front of the church. And if they step up on the alter, it's gonna be a whole other setting all together.
The ISO is going to be determined by the light in any given area.
The Ap is going to be determined by the length of the chapel.
The shutter will be determined by both of the above.
Best bet is to attend the rehearsal and just play with all of the above so that you are ready for the big day.
Again, hoping for all the best.
Cindy

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Cindy is absolutely correct. The best offense... well that doesn't apply here but... the more "comfortable" you are with the "environment" you're shooting in... the better prepared you'll be for the magic day. Practice in that place with the same expected lighting if you have the opportunity.

- Wil

[stacyreeves]

Man, you guys are so obedient.. I never follow church rules. I figure I'm there for the couple, not for the church. I don't blatantly disregard the rules the whole time, but if they say no flash and I know I need one, I'll save it for just the right moments (the rings, the kiss, etc.). By that time the ceremony's almost over so they don't have time to stop me anyway. I know, I'm a terrible person. Or sometimes if you just ask nicely they'll let you hide near the altar, behind a piano or something, as long as you promise not to move.

I say shoot RAW in manual at ISO 1000 or 1250 at 2.8 with a shutter speed of no less than 1/100 so everything is nice and sharp. If it's a little dark you can always brighten it up during RAW conversion. I agree with everyone else, except that if it's dark inside, stick with manual instead of Av, or at least keep an eye on the shutter speed so you don't end up with any blurry images. Go to the rehearsal, and make sure you ask the lighting guy to set the lights the way they will be at the actual ceremony, or else you might do all that testing and find out none of it will work!

[photosbysergio]

Thanks to all for the great advice so far. That is the number one reason I joined this site! I will be printing out the responses and read them over and over before my trial photo shoot so that I can be as prepared as I can possibly be. Sergio

[JamesB]

ask the church wedding planner (church person) if you can use a flash when the wedding party/bride is coming down the aisle. I shot a wedding where they allowed me to use the flash while they were walking down the aisle, but NOT during the ceremony. I had to go WAY up to the choir loft in the back of the church for the ceremony. and RUN back down stairs to get them coming out of the church.

James

[Elsaspet]

Bad Stacy.
I love you girl, but I feel like this is one of the many reasons that churches are so harsh on us.
The ceremony, hard as it is to shoot, is a sacred ceremony. To many church goers and wedding participants, God is blessing the couple.
When hit with tough situations, and I've had many, I beg the clergy to help me out by letting me move up or whatever. Many times I've been told "no" because "past photographers" distracted the ceremony to the point of embarrassment". Every church you go to has a story about "this one photographer".
So I abide by the rules. Yes, I have a job to do, but I inform the bride about the restrictions.
I love your work, but ignoring the rules screws the rest of us. I've done over 25 weddings this year, and have done 90 percent of them with no flash, from the balcony or back. Why? Because some churches are pissed at photographers.
I've heard countless stories of photogs being tossed out of the ceremony for doing what you have described. In some churches, photogs are not even allowed to shoot anymore because the rules were disregarded. I had one of those recently, and had to shoot from the windows in the doors in the back of the church.
I work for the couple, but I also work for all the other photogs that will preceed me.

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by JamesB

I had to go WAY up to the choir loft in the back of the church for the ceremony. and RUN back down stairs to get them coming out of the church.

Which is exactly why a "second" is VERY nice to have. You can get shots from different angles simultaneously. Don't get me wrong... you have to do what you have to do... I'm just saying that if you have the chance to have a 2nd photographer (without any negative aspects) then take it.

- Wil

[Holly]

stacyreeves
Man, you guys are so obedient.. I never follow church rules. I figure I'm there for the couple, not for the church. I don't blatantly disregard the rules the whole time, but if they say no flash and I know I need one, I'll save it for just the right moments

I agree with Cindy that we should all follow the church rules. Every photographer has an opinion on how "flexible" those rules should be...Jesus and I will NOT use flash during a ceremony, and neither are we comfortable with placing an "incognito" photog. in with the guests to shoot flash during the ceremony. Couples know the restrictions beforehand and understand they won't get certain shots if we aren't able to move past a certain pew, etc.
I can tell you we've never had a client be upset with us for following the rules the church has in place. We understand the day isn't about us and our portfolio...it's about the couple who have decided to get married there, knowing the rules that were in place beforehand.

I also agree with Wil on the importance of a second shooter! I shot solo before partnering up and I have to say that I am spoiled rotten to it now! :)

[Wil_Bloodworth]

Originally Posted by Elsaspet

I've done over 25 weddings this year, and have done 90 percent of them with no flash, from the balcony or back. Why? Because some churches are pissed at photographers. I've heard countless stories of photogs being tossed out of the ceremony for doing what you have described. In some churches, photogs are not even allowed to shoot anymore because the rules were disregarded. I had one of those recently, and had to shoot from the windows in the doors in the back of the church.
I work for the couple, but I also work for all the other photogs that will preceed me.

I tend to agree... but I'm in the middle. Tossed out? By whom? As you stated above, I work for the Bride & Groom; not the church. And I would really like to see ANYONE attempt to throw me out of anywhere where I'm working. Arrrrgh!

Also... I think you meant, "...work for all the other photogs that will come after me." But I'm just being my anal-retentive self. ;)

- Wil

[Elsaspet]

Originally Posted by ParkImaging

I tend to agree... but I'm in the middle. Tossed out? By whom? As you stated above, I work for the Bride & Groom; not the church. And I would really like to see ANYONE attempt to throw me out of anywhere where I'm working. Arrrrgh!

Also... I think you meant, "...work for all the other photogs that will come after me." But I'm just being my anal-retentive self. ;)

- Wil

No Will, when you are in the Church, you must function under the church rules. Tossed out? By the church Coordinator. Mike and I saw a GUEST tossed out in the ceremony on last Saturday because they didn't abide by the no flash rule of which they had already been briefed on. This was in a Baptist Ceremony.
Surely, if the church coordinator came up and whispered in your ear in the middle of a sacred ceremony, you would not "go off". Hopefully you would just exit the room, pissed off as you may be.
It's just part of being a wedding photographer. You don't always get your way. The bride and groom don't always get their way, but hey, they booked the joint.
Most times of the night are not condusive to photography. You have a DJ screwing you up, you have the clergy screwing you up, you have the venue screwing you up, and vidiots will wreck your life.
So what do you do? You put on your thinking cap and you overcome your obstacle, and you still get the shot. This is why they pay us what they do.

[Holly]

So what do you do? You put on your thinking cap and you overcome your obstacle, and you still get the shot. This is why they pay us what they do.

well said.