Multiple Photographers at Wedding + Backlash - experienced peeps help!

[HotHolly]

Not sure where to put this...

Here's a pic for kicks (I'll post the whole wedding later - this one is a little tounge-in-cheek):


We have shot several weddings, but this one really took me by surprise. Essentially there were 2 other photographers there.

The videographer was posing the couple and taking tons of stills (aka photographs!). She was also stealing our shots and was totally underfoot. I accidentally stepped on her tripod 2 times. She kept standing right next to me or directly behind me. I move while Im shooting, so she was totally in the way and messed up several of my shots.

Is this normal videography? I have never seen a videographer (who was actually shooting video) film/ shoot the formals - either WITH the photographer or on their own. This one did BOTH.

The 2nd unexpected photographer was the DJ. She took over 1,000 images also - to "fill in any we may have missed" verbatim. She was very nice, but she totally has the intention of selling the images.

Obviously the videogrpaher is doing the same thing.

The issue was - besides goofing the way we do weddings (unintrusive shadowing - no camera poking or barking at the bride) - we didn't get a lot of the candid shots where the couple is doting on each other. The videogrpaher would bark at them to stand here and grab so and so - and say cheese! Then she took the shot with her video equipment.

So NOT what we do. YUCK!

Back to the issue - we have an exclusivity clause in our contract - so this was a no no.

1st - Is that normal for DJs to take/ sell photos?

2nd - Is that normal for Videographers to take 1,000s of photos to sell?

3rd - What do I do?

This couple LOVES us. They did their engagements and bridals with us. At their wedding they were raving about how great we have been.

Her maid of honor (who was at her bridals) asked why I was so quiet at the wedding. When I told her that its the brides day - we are there to capture it, not to pose (or impose on) it - she LOVED that. And these people are LOUD talkative, opinioned people. So, if they think your dirt - they tell you & everyone they know. (And this is a little town)

The bride looked at me when the videographer kept pulling her away to pose her and XYZ - like she didn't know the woman would do that.

So, short version - was that normal for anywhere? It wasn't normal for us...

And you probably figured out that I can't spell videographer by now!

[Scott A]

Jeesh - I thought the videographer at this weekend's wedding was a pain in the rear but now I guess it wasn't that bad. He kept reposing them to take the same video of the still that we just took. Also, it seems like everytime someone walked in front of my shot - it was him.

On the other hand - there was a videographer team (married couple) from Austin that we shot with a while back. They were Awesome!! He was always there - but in the background. He would also hook us up with light from his cam in the dark spots...


DS Photography

[Kathi]

I work with and refer out A&A Video quite a bit. They are AWESOME! They work with me, not in front of me. I have worked with several others, however, that sound a lot like the one you described. I have an exclusivity clause in my contract too and it is not uncommon for me to stop in the middle of formals and say "Excuse me, but this would go a lot faster if you let me shoot. You are more than welcome to purchase images from our website, but please let me do my job." I have said that to guests and videographers alike. Yes, it is the bride's day and you don't want to spoil it, but at the same time you don't want to be walked all over and kept from doing what you were hired to do.

[HotHolly]

We are looking for a video co to work with. I'm leaning toward hiring out, so that we can tell them to move/ shoot there - and they actually move.

The last few video peeps have been a pain, but didn't flat out ruin our style. If you poke the bride to pose every 2 sec, you loose a lot of what would have been...

The last video guys noticed where we were standing - then when we moved - they stole our spot. Annoying, but nothing like this.

We did tell these people (OMG! There were 2 of them) to back up, scoot, move and what have you. We innately clash - we are artistic - or as she would say - artsy fartsy. And they were cliche all the way baby. Which is fine - but our poses did NOT mesh at all. So she would take the people in the formals (after she stole our shot) and move them all around to some yuck pose and plaster it with "Cheese!" Its hard to get people to stop "cheesin'" as it is -nevermind having someone else telling them to.

If anyone else has any insight on #1-#3 SPEAK UP! Saying "step off" here didnt work. Stepping on her tripod didnt work. I dount kicking her would have worked. She was a loud crass woman.

(This is the abridged version)

When I 1st arrived, she tried to bounce me at the brides door! I told her I was the photographer and pushed past her. She didnt actually move until the bride - who was less than decent stuck her head out and said hello. Rude much! The whole day was like that.

And - we do tell the bride prior to the wedding (and nail it in) if ANYONE is creating issues that the bride has to handle it. We aren't going to ruin her day and fight with _________.

I'm not sure if the bride talked to these people or not. They were skitzo - either totally in the way or goofing off eating the cake (after they blocked the shots and reposed the bride and groom to eat their cake "correctly.")

Anyway, I've not looked at the wedding yet - I think it has a lot of crap in it b/c of those 2. And they are in a TON of shots, and when she wasn't in the shot, she was tripping me. Ugh! I totally thought stepping on her would make her quit (after I told her to move, bumped her stand, slammed my head into her camera when I stood up, etc)

BUT - What do we do with the exclusivity clause? This wedding was back loaded - lack of print sales would so totally stink if those 2 undercut us. Any tactful ideas?

[Daniel Bates]

I would give them a few minutes to behave politely. If they were still being pains in the a$$, I would call the B&G aside and calmly explain how difficult it is to get the neccessary shots when the video team is interfering with the posing. It helps if you get to know the B&G, their parents, and the wedding coordinator before the ceremony, so hopefully you'll have most of the 'muscle' on your side. If you can make it the wedding coordinator's problem, so much the better for you; he or she will have the authority to throw the video team out if necessary, whereas you do not. Obnoxious people don't listen to their peers--they only listen to clear authority figures; unfortunately, us photographers don't count as 'clear authority figures'.

In summary--get the bride and groom and the coordinator (and anybody else you can) on your side before the wedding. Build a rapport with them... be nice to them (even the pushy mother of the bride, if possible) so when you need them to lay down the law on the video team, they will back you up.

--Daniel

[HotHolly]

Thanks for the advice. We did have a good rapport with the B&G, MOH, and the Mom. She's only seen the video peeps once. I'm expecting her to appologize for them when we do her proofs. And there was no coord. to involve here.

So Im at the point - whats done is done. For future weddings we upped our video clause, and we wont work with that co. again.

But for rest of this wedding - do I just let the DJ and Video Peeps steal my photo sales? They are WAY cheaper than us - and since we did the posing with the video lady was literally over my head - the shots will be nearly identical. I doubt the DJ has our reception shots - I got some cool stuff of them dancing with interesting light/ angles.

One of our studio peeps thought that we may want to mail the video and dj co. and thank them for their involvement in the wedding, pleasantries, blah blahs, and remind them that selling their photographs will endanger the brides contracted services with us. What do you think about that? Yuck? Tactless?

[Daniel Bates]

I'm probably not the one to ask on that last question, but here's my two cents... if you have it in your (signed) contract that you are the exclusive photographers, they should not and in fact can not sell the B&G photos of the event. They might need to be reminded of that.

[HotHolly]

Exactly! (We do have a signed contract that states exclusive - I never do verbal contracts) Now how do I remind, and not look like a jerk? :o)

And I still want to know if the DJs and Video peeps take photos at weddings like this...I've not come across it here or in NY. Was wondering is its a changing trend or bargain-basement issues.

[shutterflypro]

Actually it is not your contract that should prevent them from selling them but their lack of a model release. Their contracts needed to state that they had a blanket model release. Basically one very similiar to yours. The one that gives you permission to photograph and display your clients photos. The video guy may have one but I doubt the DJ does. Have the bride contact them and tell them that she will sue them if they don't remove her pics from all online sources, becuase she did not give them permission to photograph(still) her wedding.

When I encounter this type of dilemma I deal with the offenders first and if they don't stop I take it to the bride & groom (or their assigns). I notify them that if they don't stop I will. I cannot allow my business to be affected by someone else. If you do you might as well as remove the clause in your contract that states exclusivity.

Basically this boils done to setting up your clients expectation ahead of the day. They need to know what will happen in any given circumstance both good and bad. I have made that part of my pre-wedding consultations.

[HotHolly]

Hmmmm... leads me to a good question.

What if this bride signed BOTH of us with exclusivity clauses?

Who does this kind of stuff? I'm hoping I jumped the gun, but isnt that what it seems like is goijg to happen? We did all the preventitive stuff you are supposed to (which has worked this far), were tactfully firm on the wedding day without b*tchslapping anyone, and here we are.

I take it this is adnormal behavior from the DJ and video peeps?

[shutterflypro]

Yes it is very abnormal, and unfortunately at this point it probably will only be handled by attourneys. If the Videographer is using a standard Videographer contract then the verbage will be design around film production not still photography. But like I said only an attourney could work this out right now.

This videographer is just trying to create new revenue streams for himself and he doesn't care that he is cutting your throat in the meantime. Personally I would have never allowed him to continue. I would have very politely told both of them that if they continue, I will pitch a fit and all of the night will go to hell. An unhappy bride will make everyone miserable. Never had one go that far, the threat was good enough.

[shutterflypro]

Call PPA if you are a memeber. They can advise you better

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by shutterflypro

Call PPA if you are a memeber. They can advise you better

Thank you!

I got so flustered I forgot about the PPA. That was worth staying up until 2am. Okay.

Well, thanks for saying that was weird. I was thinking maybe things are changing or something. I thought it was very odd, but you never know...

[shutterflypro]

Things are changing. They are wanting in on your job.

[HotHolly]

Originally Posted by shutterflypro

They are wanting in on your job.

Yes - I saw that the moment we met.

I was poking around to see if it was an industry issue or if it is a local issue.