October Wedding @ an Art Gallery! (loads of images)

[okcwannabe]

I have a professional photographer at home to tell me things I'm doing wrong and right and he doesn't do it in a way that leaves me feeling torn apart...It doesn't mean you can't be honest or call out things you see, just not so blunt. This is why I would never want to do weddings...too much PRESSURE ;) to get those moments! I admire those of you able to do that. Anyways that's off the subject, again great job Amy!

[PictureCow]

Originally Posted by okcwannabe

I have a professional photographer at home to tell me things I'm doing wrong and right and he doesn't do it in a way that leaves me feeling torn appart...It doesn't mean you can't be honest or call out things you see, just not so blunt. This is why I would never want to do weddings...too much PRESSURE ;) to get those moments! I admire those of you able to do that. Anyways that's off the subject, again great job Amy!

Amanda,

I'm sorry you find my critique of Amy's work harsh. It's meant with good intentions. I want her to be better. For her own sake and for my industry.

I am a professional. I own a portrait studio. I shoot weddings because I enjoy them. Not because I "have" to. I can't tell you how many of my clients come in and tell me how horrible their wedding photographer was. It happens all the time. These are people who "think" they've hired a professional. Now a days people put up a website and "bam" they're in business. Just because they may have shot one or two weddings and done a decent job doesn't mean they have consistent enough work to deal with difficult lighting situations. With weddings you never know what you're walking into. For instance Amy walked in to high dark ceilings. She needed a bounce card or a light modifier for her flash. It would have improved her photos ten fold. You also don't have to bounce only off a ceiling. I bounce of walls, off people, into reflectors off anything I can. My point is. These could be better. I'm not trying to hurt her feelings. But all these people telling her they were good when really they're not... isn't going to help her to improve.

It gets pretty irritating to take the time to respond to someone's post with a real thought out critique and with suggestions on how to improve then to have a bunch of people chime in with "no, they're so pretty!!" That doesn't help the photographer get better. I'm sorry. I'm not going to candy coat it. I'm not rude in my critique. I tell whomever I'm critiquing exactly what I think, when they ask for a CC I give it to them. I'm busy. It takes time to write out these responses. If they really don't want to hear what people have to say then they should just say... please look at my photos but don't say anything unless it's going to be nice. Amy however took all the critique well. She will improve. She will get better because she's listening to advice. Is it hard to hear? Sure it is. People are emotionally attached to their work. That is part of being an artist. This is why it's best to become a craftsman too. Not just an artist. Some Photographers who really preach the "I'm an artist" like to try to pass off "bad exposures and poor composition" as "art" when really... it's bad photography. So they play with it in Photoshop so then they have "enhanced crap" but still crap none the less.

I believe that all critique is valuable. To someone who doesn't know very much about photography, lighting, etc. etc. They might see these photos and think they're "good". When you're on a forum such as this where there are so many extremes....you have the "just starting out crowd" and "seasoned professionals" and those who think "they're seasoned professionals" there is going to be a wide range of opinion. Photography is subjective but there are rules. So all advice should be taken with a grain of salt. Just because someone is in business doesn't mean they're any good. I know a lot of mediocre photographers who are great sales people. My point is that if a person takes the time to give a critique it's rude not to accept it with a "thank you." regardless if you agree with them or not. When people defend their mediocre work it makes me cringe because to me that says they don't care, they're not going to listen and take it in and their work will suffer. Let me also say... that JUST BECAUSE A CLIENT MAY LIKE IT OR EVEN BUY IT it doesn't make it good photography. I also hate that come back when you give a critque and they'll say... well the client love it. Well that's because they don't know any better and often they love the subject matter so much that all they see is that person that they love. Why do you think there are so many baby and children photographers out there? You can totally suck and still make a decent living! Weddings though... yeah not so easy.

People who are shooting wedding's in particular who are still learning "on the job" yet taking money for photographing are living dangerously. Weddings ARE a once in a lifetime event. You have to be good. You have to be consisitant and it's certainly NOT the time to be learning on the job as the "main" shooter. I believe that anyone who wants to learn needs to pay their dues. You have to be an assistant and while you can get paid as a second shooter you shouldn't be accepting money and opening business when you don't know what you're doing. It gives photographers a bad name, it hurts our industry because they're often priced poorly and have substandard work.

So, please don't judge me or the others for giving her professional advice. She asked for the help.

[Collins]

Originally Posted by okcwannabe

I have a professional photographer at home to tell me things I'm doing wrong and right and he doesn't do it in a way that leaves me feeling torn appart...It doesn't mean you can't be honest or call out things you see, just not so blunt. This is why I would never want to do weddings...too much PRESSURE ;) to get those moments! I admire those of you able to do that. Anyways that's off the subject, again great job Amy!

I'll have to get Laura's back here.

I didn't see anything that should leave anyone who is sincere about improving torn apart.

I also like that she had the guts to really give a thought out critique of work that needs to be improved. I think we need more of that here. If the poster's intent is to get better and the intent of the person critiquing is to point out ways that can be done--it's not a bad thing.

And of course Amy took it in stride, which is the biggest point here.

[lscottpht]

I think Laura gives great critiques. They may seem harsh, but she is honest and trying to be helpful. I wish I could give critiques like that. I do tend do say great job, but then again, I ONLY post on threads with images on them that I really like. If I don't like the images, I simply do not post, which doesn't help the OP at all. I just can't give critiques unless i know for sure that the OP really wants them and can handle them. So, what I'm trying to say, it's good for someone to really take the time to give such a thought out critique.

[Abel]

The moderators and I have looked over the thread and discussed the situation. Many of the posts in this thread have been removed so that the thread can get back on topic in regards to Amy looking for feedback on the photos she posted.

Those whom have had posts deleted in this thread please DO NOT rehash what has been said previously or try to respond to something someone said that isnt even in the thread anymore. Amy asked for some constructive criticism on her photographs and that will remain the intent of this thread.

If those that had something deleted want to discuss the proper way to give a critique etc feel free to create a new thread in the Open Talk section and discuss it there. Keep in mind that this does NOT mean you can continue the argument with name calling... That is not welcomed here.

[smseeley]

Hey Amy, just a suggestion to improve the vertical shadow thing...have you thought about using a flash bracket? I know it's old school, and heavy, and takes a bit to get used to, but I have been using one for a few weddings and find that it works great, especially if I use a Stofen and bounce my flash with using the bracket. I haven't used one for the entire wedding, I usually just bring it out at the reception for a little while....like I said, it's pretty heavy, and yes I am a wimp when it comes to carrying heavy things :-)

[amykarp]

Originally Posted by smseeley

...have you thought about using a flash bracket? I know it's old school, and heavy, and takes a bit to get used to, but I have been using one for a few weddings and find that it works great, especially if I use a Stofen and bounce my flash with using the bracket.

someone else suggested a bracket - any suggestions on what to get? My setup is currently:

30d
580ex
and various (not so fancy lenses)

I am with you Sarah - heavy things are not something I want to lug around for 6+ hours.

[smseeley]

here's the one I have:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...p_Bracket.html

[AnnetteT]

Amy, one of the things I've been working on lately is bouncing off something other than ceilings. Actually -- in most venues, the ceilings are too high...so I'm looking for other things to bounce off of...walls, people's shirts...anything that will reflect light...

Here is an awesome post from Neil van Niekerk who made me rethink how I was using my external flash. I already take it off the camera quite a bit (and hope to MORE after Mykey and Cody's workshop!), but this has given a lot of depth to my on-camera flash shots...

Directional Light from your On-camera Flash

And, I have to side with Collins and Leslie -- I avoid giving critiques because I think "who am I to critique??" or "I'm no expert in ____"...and I find that even if I do have something useful to say, I don't say it...and only post where I have positive comments.

Personally -- I want the critiques...that's the only way any of us get better...I need a set (or a hundred sets) of objective eyes.

[amykarp]

Originally Posted by AnnetteT

people's shirts...anything that will reflect light...

I feel so incredibly guilty when I blast someone in the face. I often get the "look" after I turn around to see the aftermath of the explosion!

Yeah, I might have a few - don't like it and here's why, but that's it....as far as rules go, I am NO EXPERT by far. I in fact was talking to my husband about taking some classes too. I think I saw you on CL, right? I want to go shoot with you sometime! I like your style.

[amykarp]

thanks Sarah - I need a 72 hour military style training session on proper flash use!

Originally Posted by smseeley

here's the one I have:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...p_Bracket.html